Vancouver environmentalists abandon Mayor Gregor's coalition

Post by Daniel Fontaine in

63 comments

equakeinpavement.jpg
Last week's 6.3 earthquake did not trigger the crack forming in Vision's coalition

For the last three years Mayor Gregor Robertson and his political caucus have been shouting from the city hall rooftop about how they want to transform Vancouver into a new green oasis. It’s a grand experiment that would have us tending to our chickens in the backyard while replacing our front lawns with mini wheat fields.

One would think all this talk about ‘greening’ the city would have lots of appeal to members of Vancouver’s Green Party. That’s because during the last civic election in 2008 the Greens, COPE and Vision Vancouver locked arms and ran on the same slate.

But despite all the self-generated hype about the Mayor’s green credentials, a considerable number of Vancouver’s environmentalists don’t seem to be impressed. On Tuesday, the Green Party made it official by breaking away from Robertson’s coalition and nominating a set of opposing candidates for the upcoming civic election.

It’s not a decision they took lightly. But after years of being treated like second-rate citizens by Vision Vancouver, they simply had enough.

It’s a decision I’m confident was wholeheartedly endorsed by Park Board Commissioner Stuart Mackinnon, the party’s only elected official. It’s widely reported the relationship between Mackinnon and his Vision colleagues was less than stellar.

Things turned really sour after the commissioner had the temerity to speak out against Vision Vancouver’s cuts to the Park Board budget. It’s a decision I suspect was the genesis of this political fracture.

This new reality means that Vancouverites will have the option to vote for candidates from four major parties — three of them on the left side of the spectrum. Council candidates from COPE, the Green Party, Vision Vancouver as well as the NPA will now be fighting it out on the campaign trail.

Despite the spin from the Mayor’s office, the loss of this major coalition partner is a big blow to Robertson. That’s because he’s invested a lot of his political capital nurturing the environmental vote in the hope they would be there for him on election day. But I have to ask, if the Green Party isn’t prepared to buy his environmental message, will Vancouver voters?

In a poll conducted by Justason Market Intelligence, 63% of decided voters did not select Vision Vancouver as their top choice. This week’s decision by local environmentalists will only serve to further erode that support.

Vision Vancouver may well have a relatively popular mayor, but I’m still unclear as to whether that directly translates into improved political fortunes for some of their weaker council candidates.

- Post by Daniel. You can follow us on Twitter @CityCaucus. Or you can "like" us at Facebook.com/CityCaucus. This column first appeared in 24 Hours Vancouver on Thursday, Sept 15th, 2011.

63 Comments

looks like we are starting to get into the political stuff - to influence the peoples vote... I need to ask what the NPA is going to do for the environment...and taxpayer....did they not completely screw the olympic village project ...that vision had to "fix as best they could" ....did that not completely risk the credit rating of the city and the taxpayer.....(I have not forgotton) ....
And the environment....are you kidding...I am not a hardcore green person...but the last 3 years, tons of changes have taken place in our city to lessen the dependance on the automobile, and increase the "public gardens" chickens, etc....love it or hate it....having a chicken for fresh brown eggs - who cares ...I love the idea....(and were one of the last major cities to adopt this by the way ....- was the NPA too chicken! - it has obvious negative press and banter) ...
What about homes and homless - I have seen first hand - the major increase in housing and shelter in the winter as I work downtown....(this did not occur under the NPA)...
...Is this your major issue...housing and a lack of green voters to bring back the NPA...You guys need some substance...not hope for vote splitting which may bring you some candidates.... (and Anton for Mayor,,,please tell me your joking right ! )

LMAO!
You need some medicine man.
Bikes, wheat, chicken, bee hives... lots of paper shuffling and money spent to the left and to the right VERSUS "Green jobs" for Mayor @ Vision's friends and operatives.
This is Vision's TRUE legacy, buddy!
Their only legacy.
Don't have to believe me, check the... Vancouver City hall rooster!

At least Jeremy is coherent. I can't make any sense of your comments. You afraid to address real issues? And like Jeremy I think backyard chickes, urban agriculutre and bike lanes all move Vancouver in directions I support. I want to know what the NPA's policies will be. As Mike will point out, they actually have an OK record on sustainability as well, but what would they do if elected?

I don't know much about political strategy, but as a person who has often voted Green I am glad to have a Green option at the municipal level.

Steve I am in the same boat. I will be voting COPE and Green and maybe 2 or 3 progressive NPA candidates but no Vision! They are just sellouts and don't deserve our support. Look what they have done to the downtown eastside gentrification.

lol...at least we are friends...knowledge is power, not taking medicine...the bees are going ...1 honey bee hive produces 200+lbs of honey per year, and enchances the bee population / which has stumped science as to their fast demise....this is a "new eco business" also....lots of municipalities have bylaws now allowing 1-2 hives!
BIKES: - I am not a huge fan - but they are used, and apparently 8-900 a day use the adanac bike corridor - which is essentially a feeder into the city's designated bike routes....this (I agree was rushed)....seems to be working - the burrard bridge etc...all the bike lanes are working - and dont forget its a time trial / study...
lets also forget that this mayor is an astute and proven business person with a track record of success....and has taken steps to remove Vancouver from the Metro Van (GVRD) which does soo little for us all except another tax grab / expense....these are all soo many things the previous NPA could have done...they did not do any of it...I suggest they did not have the forsight for our taxpayers, the environment, and the changing times of our society within urban centres, and the new bylaws that have been created......the NPA let down the public / tax payer / worker / business person / and others....(the cyclist and homeless person too) ....Honestly what great tax saving ventures did the NPA do, and what bylaws were changed in to accomodate and adjust our changing times? ....I also remember huge strikes and labor unrest / poor motivation under the NPA, (judy korbin apparently lost over 90% of her grievances that went to an arbitrator) ...yet this site CC - cried foul when she was let go.... come on....that alone was hundreds of thousands in wasted tax payer money on lawyers and due process.....again...I ask why should I vote NPA....? Visions done a couple things I dont agree with but so far I am OK to give them another 3 yrs.....? - without any medicine!

Hector, Jeremy and Steven
You know exactly what I am saying guys, don't play 'puzzled in Hollyhock'!
Go somewhere else and 'plant' yourselves, because you can't grow here, the soil can't nourish your thoughts well enough! Do you want me to explain that too? I thought you were smart guys! I may have been wrong ...

I see some Vision "proxies" are hard at work here today!
Nuff said.

Jeremy

Your comments are not cohesive or even grammatical. They are simply Vision talking points, with the obligatory "I don't agree with everything, but ..." smokescreen, run in an incoherent sequence.

Use paragraphs, start sentences with a capital letter, at least try to give the impression you did something beyond cut and paste. In short, treat the rest of us with some minimal respect.

You could do 'soo' much better!

Ahhhh, Jeremy:

For someone who claims to have done his homework, you missed the mark on many of your so called 'points'.

Let's start with the social housing that has been built and that is still under construction. Those units - all of them, where brought together by the previous NPA party and Minister Coleman. 14 units. The only participation this Mayor and council have had - are the photo ops. It is truly not hard to look up as when this deal was struck - it even took people like Townsend by surprise. The properties were quietly purchased in order not to drive prices up, and either new starts or renos were completed.

STIR - a Vision accomplishment - does not allow for affordable housing unless you call 400 sq feet at the rental rate of $1,000+, affordable. What it does do is pad the pockets of those big developers to the the tune of $100K + per unit. The Mainlander has written excellent articles on the subject and provides a very good dissection of the numbers.

Backyard chickens - this dates back to 1978, when a woman fought against City Hall to keep chickens as a food source - the Van Sun covered the story.

If you consider 'chickens' a major accomplishment, then I suggest you try raising the bar a bit.

Bike lanes - the NPA laid down 400 Km of bike lanes throughout the city. The Burrard St. segregated lane could have been done a heck of a lot better. The Hornby lane - got and deserved the push back due to lack of public consultation. $2.4 million in lost revenue to various businesses as a direct result or that lack of public consultation.

The NPA has never stated they are against bike lanes - oh, and congratulations to Suzanne Anton for participating and completing the Gran Fondo.

Homelessness has increased under Robertson's/Vision's watch.

As for Robertson being an 'astute' businessman - he hasn't run Happy Planet for years. And I know his financial backers were right pissed when he got caught cheating the transit system. If you remember he was going to 'fight' the ticket and then caved and paid it.

Oly Village - in keeping with all things ;green; - Robertson and Vision pushed to have it built Leeds platinum rather than the Leeds gold it was originally planned for. Which means more money spent and more monies needed to be recouped. That is Vision's own making. And let's not dismiss the problems the tenants are having due to a 'rush' job. And don't even get me started on Enerpro and their relationship with Solomon/Robertson. Here is a 'green' company that does nothing more that push paper and charged the low income persons in those units for the privilege. $12.95 for printing a bill. Funny, didn't see that contract up for tender.

@Max: "Oly Village - in keeping with all things green; - Robertson and Vision pushed to have it built Leeds platinum rather than the Leeds gold it was originally planned for. Which means more money spent and more monies needed to be recouped. That is Vision's own making."

That doesn't fit with Mike Klassen's comments to you on the same subject:

Posted by Mike Klassen: "@Max et al, this note explaining the Village's LEED certification history comes courtesy of Brent Toderian:

I've seen the suggestion that the OV buildings were originally intended to be LEED silver, and that was switched to LEED gold, then platinum. In fact, there was indeed a change from silver to gold. But there has always been the intention to only have 2 buildings be LEED platinum - the seniors building that will also be "net-zero", and the community centre. The rest will be gold, as intended. I think many are confused because the broad community got a leed-nd (neighbourhood design) platinum rating, announced during the olympics. That's different than the leed-nc (new construction) achievement of gold, which relates to individual buildings, not the community scale. This LEED-nd platinum ranking is a significant acheivement that is more about a sustainable community, than building approaches and technologies. Hope this helps."

I truly don't care about LEEDS standard buildings.

We have a lot of sick, mentally ill, drug addicted individuals in our City.

What will we do for them?

ALL LEVELS OF GOVERNMENT must work together to heal the people and then we can worry about the environment.

Healthy people, healthy environment

@Max:

"Bike lanes - the NPA laid down 400 Km of bike lanes throughout the city. The Burrard St. segregated lane could have been done a heck of a lot better. The Hornby lane - got and deserved the push back due to lack of public consultation. $2.4 million in lost revenue to various businesses as a direct result or that lack of public consultation.

The NPA has never stated they are against bike lanes - oh, and congratulations to Suzanne Anton for participating and completing the Gran Fondo."

Firstly, congratulations to Suzanne Anton as well for riding the Gran Fondo.

Anton's quote was actually that there were 400 km of bike lanes by the end of their term in 2008, not that the NPA built them all.

I think that both parties support bike lanes, and Anton has said she supports separated bike lanes as well. But what I think about mostly when I consider the NPA and bike lanes is the recent experience of the Burrard Bridge bike lanes, the endless studies and wasted money. There was a lack of political courage, IMO. That was evidenced by the false starts and cancellations. In the past few years, we finally got a bike lane across the Burrard Bridge, the prophets of doom turned out to be wrong, and it is working. It can be improved, particularly at the intersections, but it is working. As to the Hornby lane, again, the numbers show people are using it, which was the goal. The report done by the Vancouver Economic Development Commission, The Downtown Vancouver Association, The Downtown BIA, The Vancouver Board of Trade, and the CoV, called the business impacts moderate. Probably partly because the figures claimed were not supported by the data, and could not be claimed to be as a direct result of the bike lane trial.

Results count to me. I would like to see progress on cycling issues, among other things. With respect to the cycling issues, if the NPA candidates want my vote I want to see clear pledges of their plans for further cycling infrastructure, a timeline, and considerations of funding sources.

On the Burrard bridge trial... The massive increase in accidents at the North End would tend to not prove that the trial has been a success.

On the Hornby lane trial... The numbers are somewhat disingenuous. We will never know if there was ACTUALLY an increase in ridership or if those riders were just using the Hornby route instead. Remember the city said that the impact of the bike lanes on business would be mitigated by the increase in people who chose to ride their bike downtown.

Finally on the word "moderate". I love how the Vision supporters are hanging their hat on this word as if it's proof that things really aren't that bad. I wonder if this was reversed. Let's say a future council was to remove the bike lanes and a report by the VACC said that cycling numbers took a "moderate" hit because of it.

Would you be so quick to defend the move because "hey they difference is only moderate"?

And before anyone jumps down my throat thinking I support the removal of the bike lane, I'll say I do not support the full removal of the lane. I do support changing both the Hornby and Burrard lanes to a more sensible system on a trial basis to create a road map for how bike lanes should be implemented city-wide.

@ Jeff L:

When an extremely small number of Hornby bike lane businesses choose to participate in a city conducted survey (I think it was 15), that does not speak well to their trust in that city government.

Perhaps it was payback for the lack of 'public' consultation when the lane was hammered in.

Let's face it, it was a done deal, regardless of 'the how' VV and Robertson try to candy coat it.

As for bike 'trials' who the heck do they think they are kidding. It is an insult to all to use that terminology.


@Paul

It looks like there was a large spike in collisions for a couple of months after the start of the trial. However, since, then collisions have decreased to levels similar to that before the trial. I here is is quite common to have collision increases while drivers adjust to new road configurations. Here are more details:
http://exile.wordpress.com/2010/10/13/more-on-burrard-bridge-accident-statistics/

The city has made changes to the intersection to reduce collisions. As these changes are part of the trial, your claim that the collisions prove the trial unsuccessful is rather premature. And, what is more important is reducing injuries and there is an initial indication that injuries have been reduced. http://vancouver.ca/projects/burrard/statistics.htm

Anyway, the city knows that this intersection needs improving. It was one of several identified in the 2002 Downtown Transportation Plan as needing improvements for pedestrian, cyclist and motorist safety. Unfortunately, the NPA council of the day did not provide the needed increases in capital funding for these and other badly needed safety improvements downtown. As a result, almost 10 years later, 29 out of 53 improvements still need implementing. They didn't even bother costing out the improvements so they would at least know how much they needed. Another example of All Plan, No Action.

I'm going to head off on another tangent yes, shockers!

I've been watching various Vision tweets this afternoon about the new water fountain in Grandview Park as a memorial to Mr. Brick, and can't help think of 'Tracey', the homeless woman they USED during the last political campaign run.

Sad.....very sad and shameful that Vision has zero problems using the homeless for political points.

Max

Tracey was actually the second of Gregor's list of homeless that he uses for political gain...

quote from Gregor Robertson

""I reached a turning point a few weeks back, on hearing news about a tragedy in my so-called affluent part of town," Roberston said. "A homeless man named Darrell Mickasko burned to death trying to keep from freezing on an icy cold night on the streets."

and now Curtis Brick is the 3rd dead man Vision will use for political gains...

Oddly enough everyone from Vision was tweeting today..the irony didn't escape me that they honored Curtis with a drinking fountain considering he died from dehydration in that park.

Even more ironic is the fact that one of the men that survived the Pandora Street fire was Curtis Brick's brother ...could that fountains timing be any better for PR considering the inquiry into the Pandora deaths is due at the end of October.

and so the election season begins again on the backs of the poor and the homeless..

ok Max...I think I'm banned from mentioning homeless and fire in the same sentence..bad Karma..

ScanBC ScanBC
#Vancouver firefighters have extinguished a squatter's camp fire near the hollowed out tree in Stanley Park
49 seconds ago Favorite Retweet Reply

They seem to be regurgitating a lot of previous 'promises'; homelessness, housing affordability......

The sad thing with Tracey, the Vision plan was already in place - 2 weeks prior to her tragic death . Her passing was just 'timing' and they jumped on it and they used it.

Just like Mr. Curtis Black. You could view it as somewhat at the hands of Vision's own 'trying to be green' in-actions that he passed.

Pimps of a different kind.

@Paul T.

Massive? Really?

You are talking about an increase in rear end collisions due to intattentive drivers. Compare that to the number of hospital admissions of cyclists. The bike lanes didn't make those drivers crash into each other, they did that all by themselves. Yes, the lanes are safer. Yes, the intersection needs attention. Do you support the changes made to the intersection to make it safer for drivers?

Vision didn't say moderate (unless they were quoting the report) as far as I know. The business associations who participated in the report said it. Even the data in the report doesn't support the $2.4 m number.

@Max

A rational observer would conclude that the businesses claiming impact could not support said claims when asked to by a separate organization (Stantec). Actually, those that did provide data (I think it was four of them) provided data that invalidated their claims. But don't let that stop you from claiming a $2.4m impact on sales revenue.

The public consultation produced numerous changes to loading bays, etc. Would you prefer that those conversations had not happened? They drove the price up for implementation, but I think it was probably money well spent. Consultation in this case was about improving the proposed lanes. Some presenters seemed to want to argue the benefits of cycling, whether it rains in Vancouver, etc, and therefore whether there should even be cycle lanes. That wasn't the purpose of the consultation IMO. There was a platform to install more lanes. The consultation was about doing a better job of the trial. In the absence of suggestions for a better location, I give them points for getting it done on Hornby.

knowing a little bit about retail... I would not show the city my books either. 1) it would cost me money to gather the information and 2)the minute I turned it in, all my figures would be publicized and scrutinized.

Any claim I made would be attributed to anything and everything other than the introduction of bike lanes.

Why would I bother subjecting myself to that sort of abuse?

Steven,
Quite frankly you are a silly pompous unctuios little man and are thus a perfect match for the likes of Mayor Fauntelroy and his henchman Meggs. You have no appreciation for the fact that normal middle class hard working people in Vancouver struggle to save money to buy a home here and live in this beautiful city . One example. You squander cheap, expedient and affordable access to the city with underutilized bike lanes. What was the goal of these bike lanes? Where is it spelled out? What were the measures of success of the bike lanes? Was it a reduction in CO2 emissions? What were the emissions on Burrard Street bridge before? What are the emissions now? What was the goal in terms of increased usage by cyclists? Or was the goal how many votes Mayor Fauntelroy could buy from the cycling lobby? The decision to constrict traffic with bike lane affects real people with real jobs. It increases my commute time....yes on a bus. And when I have a business meeting downtown and have a few beers, I take a cab.. a cab that is powered by batteries..not gas. So fully sustainable yet I spend an extra five minutes in my commute because of the bike lane related congestion. Cost me money and time. And I see the empty bike lanes each and every day because I commute each and every day on that bridge.

I suggest you and Mayor Fauntelroy go and stand at hastings and Main for a day and decide what is needed to make this city liveable. Bike lanes for a handful of Kits silver spoon fed yuppies clad in lycra on their thousand dollar bikes feeling good about themselves because they parked the BMW and road a bike or adult decisions about policing, law enforcement and protecting the low income people forced to live in the drug infested mayhem of the DTES.

As a business person, there are ways to use your sales figures to support your claim of a reduction in sales volume without disclosing all of your books. And I would make sure that if I did provide figures to the study's authors, that they lined up with the claims I was making.

I can't help but think that not reporting sales figures could be connected to running a cash only business on the side.

Well said Skippy..
speaking of the mayhem in the DTES, at least Kerry Jang had the decency to admit to the negligence of the city here...

http://www.vancourier.com/news/Teenage+housing+nightmare+opens+business+Downtown+Eastside/5415548/story.html

Well, the first sentence was a bit over the top. Personal attacks are not my thing and I should have referred to the hypocrisy of VV, the tone of their message and frivolous programs they have implemented in pursuit of misplaced priorities.

Jeff, 'I can't help but think that not reporting sales figures could be connected to running a cash only business on the side.'

That is quite a libelous statement.

sorry skippy I'm not clear on your message...which first sentence are you referring to...

Skippy... my bad, I just reread your post...I understand...:)

I love this banter..buy.." normal middle class people saving money to buy a house"...you are clearly not in vancouver,,,,and you clearly dont ride a bike....I hate to inform you, but although I too despise the bike lanes...they are used- my job has me going all over the downtown core - and parking by the bike lanes....they are used...infact if your not careful you will be hit by a passing bike...(yes that is how many there were on Hornby the other day) The Burrard bike lane is working too....remember years ago it didnt - our "forward thinking" vision tried again...I love the many examples of vision making decisions that are major lightening rods for discontent and risk losing many votes...that exemplifies a certain courage and conviction and integrity...I loathe the politicians that only do things for votes and a political agenda...here we have a group that has pissed an entire genre with their decisions....they are clearly doing (what every other city has also done) things that are forward thinking and moving us forward.....whilst not worrying about all the lost votes...that speaks volumes....The previous NPA would not touch anything that would cost them votes...and they were essentially pushovers that were voted out?..I have the beauty of working for the City and seeing first hand the differences....in the parties....There is no perfect answer....it seems all the people on here moan about chickens and bike lanes, and homeless housing...is that all you got? ..+ of course the lame name calling moonbeam etc..although humourous it reduces the integrity of your comments! ....but I do love this political banter...maybe Mike and Daniel will save the City....but I dont think so!! and Suzanne....we just are not ready for that show....she flip flops more than Christy!

@Julia

Actually, it isn't.

I have found these articles from The Courier quite shocking (but not surprising)
Especially the connection between the head of Atira and the CEO of B.C.Housing.
I did read that the CEO withdraws from any discussion regarding Atira but I'm not sure even that is enough.

What other groups in the DTES have connections that (we the tax paying public) don't know about?

Nothing seems to be transparent in this City, Province.

I do actually live in Vancouver and have for 23 years and yes I own a bike (rocky mountain fusion) My comment was that he bike lanes are under-utilized not that they are not used. On my morning walk this morning, about 10 minutes to cross the burrard street bridge, I was passed by two cyclists. Many more cars and pedestrians/joggers. That is my point. In terms of efficient use of a public asset, the bike lanes are a significant waste. WRT your earlier comment on homes and homelessness, my experience is quite different. Here in Kits, there has been a significant increase in homeless people in the past two to three years. Currently two people camping in Kits beach park for example. The major initiative for housing was an NPA initiative signed by the provincial Liberals, Sam Sullivan and Judy Rogers the former city manager.

I recall that BIV had an article quoting the owner of Art Knapps on Hornby who had seen his business fall something like 10% (?) after the bike lanes. Given that he has other locations, which had not suffered the same decline, it would seem like a believable, supportable figure. However, he was not in favour of removing the lanes given the expense that it would involve.

For what its worth, my personal obervations have been they are fairly well used during rush hour, but lightly used outside of that time. Perhaps a flex lane which would be for bikes during rush hours and street parking outside of that time might have been better, but who knows.

chris (one of many)
it would shock you..it is such an incestuous situation we as a society should be ashamed..just look at where some of our elected officials started working AFTER the election..
It actually surprises me that the Courier is even doing these stories as they have been one of the worst enablers in the last 3 years..

I am just sickened by this George. How the heck did the city ever think this was okay?

And now Jang is having an 'ooops' moment???

This is what I mean when I say Vision pays more attention to bike lanes and it's green schemes than the true needs of the citizens.

I am mortified by this 'housing' project, absolutely mortified.

Is Vision that desperate to show people as housed that they would put these 'aboriginal' girls at risk?

Anyone with half a brain could point out the obvious issues with this plan....

I guess I expect too much. Idiots, complete idiots.

I'd believe those figures regarding Art Knapp's. I was thinking more about the merchants affected by the Hornby St lanes, who wouldn't partipate in the business impact study, not the Burrard Bridge lanes. I have made a point of shopping at Knapp's to support their business (usually walking there).

Perhaps the businesses didn't participate as they were somewhat ignored in the planning process. No consultation.

Pay back.

And let's face it, I think the businesses along with everyone else no these lanes are no 'trial'.

(I guess Vision thinks if they keep using that terminology the rest of us will believe it)

Max,
What is even more frightening is the fact that this is just not municipal government, it goes right up to the provincial level..
The key words in this article aren't really what Jang slipped out...it is the word "ASSETS"
Use your research skills Max, you are very good at it..look at the $$ figure of assets of all the poverty agencies..

Biggest ones to watch right now PHS..Atira, Coast Mental Health... follow the money...who benefits from the money??
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in earlier articles didn't Atira state this was a temporary project...are they sitting on this property for a reason..real estate speculation perhaps..
I personally have had reservations about Atira for awhile, since I read that they managed the building where the Surrey Six were murdered...I wonder about the screening process for their tenants since reading that article..
Real Estate ownership has its hand in more than what meets the eyes of the general public...with a little help from some well placed friends...

The biggest travesty right now is what is going on with the Community Living and the developmentally disabled adults...they will be the next homeless on the DTES...mark my words..this has been happening for several years now....as a society we are to be ashamed..


and of course apologies to Mr. Forth for my ill tempered personal comment. The focus should be on policies and VV poor execution.

"follow the money...who benefits from the money?"

It appears to me that everybody but the people who need treatment, and safe(not mismanaged chaos) places to live.

How on earth would you manage a "flex bike lane"? I suspect it would be expensive and ineffective. Imagine someone cycling downtown with their children and having the separated bike lane disappear. How would they get back home. Traffic on Hornby is quite light on most sections outside of rush hour so it would make a lot more sense just to have parking in a moving lane outside of rush hour.

Skippy
there are times when some things need to be said..don't beat yourself up..you show your decency with your apology, and your frustration with your original comment..
there are times when you need to call a spade a spade, and there are some among us that are most sanctimonious, and they deserve a dressing down from time to time..quite frankly my friend, I agreed with your original comment, since we are baring our souls here. :-)

The ones that benefit with the $$$ the politicians, administrators and union paid staff.. the grant writers should hide their heads in shame..

As a person in the system chris, I have seen first hand the abuse of funds and power displayed by the players in this game..

Notice the rush for pensions by the players and the lack of relief in the cesspool that is the DTES...I don't know if you follow twitter, but it is an education in entitlement by the poverty pimps that are a** kissed by the politicians for votes..what do these votes get them..a publicly paid for pension...
I'm not even on the housing train...I can't understand why we spend all this money and there are no more real success stories.

As long as we continue to able drug use and pander to the poverty industry brought to us by folks like Jim Green, Larry Campbell..Libby Davies, David Eby Gregor Robertson, all the Vision crew at the moment..
we are in serious trouble..

But we are being distracted by bike lanes,gardens, food security..so funny since low income folks are sold out of date foods,the garbage that can't be sold. Like a mosquito that we swat at, we are being distracted intentionally..the situation is far worse than the general public is aware of.

Where is the real assistance for these young women they are housing?

We always hear the LOCATION LOCATION LOCATION mantra.. young women should not be in this location..period.

I'd be interested to know if there were any tax incentives that come with this project...like the ones offered to garden on property and parking lots...or the STIR initiatives...someone needs to connect the dots..but that would take a forensic audit... and that takes a politician with guts..are they out there..one really wonders.

All I've seen is pandering for votes... abuse to whistle blowers that try to bring this out to the public's attention...Right now the developers, special interest groups, are the biggest bandits out there,the enabling by politicians at all levels of government is shameful.

Not only would I cheer for any politician with the guts to do a forensic audit of the DTES, I'd even endorse them.
Which is saying something because I can't remember the last time I endorsed a politician.
I think it was some time back in the 1970's.

@Max:

"Perhaps the businesses didn't participate as they were somewhat ignored in the planning process. No consultation"

Perhaps. This wasn't consultation? The following is from a city staff report, not a political party:

* Mail out survey in Aug 2010 to 4000 affected businesses and residents
* On line survey at the same time (I know this happened, since I participated in it)
* Information centre in Aug at Pacific Centre
* 2300+ responses received as a result of the above process
* Individual stakeholder meetings held between July and September with DVBIA, Board of Trade, and the DVA.
* Intercept survey of 500 visitors to Hornby
* As a result of the above, multiple design changes were made. A project update was sent to 4000 businesses and residents inviting them to a second open house. Revised design was also posted on the CoV website.
* 700 people attended the second info session, more feedback received.

So, when you say that there was no consultation, are you saying that city staff are lying? And that we didn't really participate in any of the above exercises? Or are you saying that it didn't get cancelled, so therefore the CoV didn't listen to the businesses? If that is it, then how do you explain all of the design changes, like loading zones, drop off zones, driveway access, etc. that were incorporated due to the feedback. Or are you just repeating something you heard about 'no consultation'?

You were the one who suggested we all do more research.

Have you ever considered that most small business owners are so busy trying to make a living that they can barely keep their heads above water?

Let alone go to innumerable meetings,surveys,walk by surveys.

Right now I'm faced with going to another meeting where a group will tell us what they want!

And that's that!

Richard:

How many people are cycling downtown, with their kids, during a work day.

Weekends I will give to, but work weekdays, outside of the summer months....

Jeff..
I believe what I read/heard was that many or the businesses realized it was pointless to get involved as it was already a done deal and their opinions would not be listened to..they do have a very valid point..
your statement about the COV lying was a joke..Right???

I have seen a few on weekdays. I suspect some people cycle their children to school. I do see more on weekends though.

Still, the point is that a part time bike lane is likely not workable. It would be confusing for everyone and not effective at encouraging people to cycle more.

Gee, Jeff L:

You are starting to sound very familiar, like someone who was outed on another site.

Distraction!

If I had a shop on hornby and was suffering losses because of the bike lanes I would be trying to sell,and there would be no way in the world I would release my numbers to the public.Its a catch 22.

Max,

You're such bully and a coward. You throw out these vague insinuations with nothing to back them up and when called out on it you disappear.

Pathetic.

O Good Lord;

Look at who is accusing me of throwing out 'accusations'!

Interesting over reaction boohoo, considering I wasn't hinting at you.

You, Jeff L., Chris Keam, spartikus, and others have made sport of tagging teaming me on other sites and you don't see me crying foul about it.

If you and others can't take it - then don't dish it out.

Richard:

I am not against the bike lanes and/or the safety of others.

What I take issue with is how they have been implemented.

I still believe that Granville St. due to the already established pedestrian district, and the fact that Granville was pretty much shut down for the Olys and people were used to other pathways, would have been the better alternative over Hornby. Had the cycling lobbyists pushed that route, I would guess you would have heard peep over any issues.

Funny, I was in TO last week and noticed that bikes, cars and trams all got along well, without designated paths. It was like a transit symphony.

I know you weren't talking about me--I'm simply pointing out your passive agressive cowardice is getting old.

I don't care about jeff or spartikus or whoever else says, I speak for myself and myself alone--as much as you've tried to paint me as some secret spy through baseless accusations, vague insinuations and the like, it just ain't true. Now I see you doing it here again with someone else. Pretty pathetic.

@George:

I equate that position with someone deciding it wouldn't be worth anyone voting in the next election. If you don't vote, you don't get to have an opinion. Similarly, if you don't respond to a city-funded independent survey run by your own business associations, about business impacts, fine. But then it is hard to take seriously any and all claims of losses. And third party commentators who didn't suffer losses directly don't get to claim them either. Can't have it both ways. For all the evidence being requested about the number of riders, why would we give weight to claims from business owners if they can't back them up?

@Max

I've got news for you, it isn't a war. It is supposed to be a conversation. This particular conversation was about the environmentalists abandoning the Vision coaltion or not.

I just saw the comment by boohoo. I don't know him. But similar to his comments, I speak for myself and myself alone. You can try all you want to make this a conspiracy, but I get very tired of your false claims. So I speak up. BS shouldn't go unchallenged.

In this case you claimed there was no bike lane consultation. None. I provided details. Any thoughts? You went quiet.

You also made claims about LEED certification. I remembered those posts from last year, they were easy to find. The correction to your claim was easy to do as Mike Klassen wrote a response to you last year correcting you. He even addressed you in his post. Any thoughts? Again, in this thread, you went quiet.

I provided another opinion on your claim on recent NPA progress on bike lanes. Any thoughts? You went quiet.

You then posted that you wanted to go off on a tangent about water fountains and homeless people. Well, that is one way of responding. Actually, it says volumes.

I did not respond to any of your comments about homeless people. It isn't an issue I think the municipal government should be involved in, other than through zoning. Call the provincial government. I think I actually agree with Suzanne Anton on that one, as she made similar comments recently about a Vision plan to build subsidized housing.

So your only response to this entire conversation was to threaten me with 'outing'? I use my full name on boards where the conversation is civil. Where people don't worry about being 'outed' for their comments. Here, I don't use my last name. I just don't need the hassle, frankly. But those who see me post on other sites know what my name is. Hint for you, it starts with Jeff.

@chris (one of many)

"Distraction!"

Sorry, I'll need more details to understand your point.

I half agree with your comment Jeff I agree if you don't vote you can't complain...as for the rest of your position I disagree.. I tend to agree with the statement made by gman..

"If I had a shop on hornby and was suffering losses because of the bike lanes I would be trying to sell,and there would be no way in the world I would release my numbers to the public.Its a catch 22."

interesting...that is actually a great idea...Granville instead of Hornby...it just makes sense...for the reason many of the businesses on Gr. are clubs and bars..that are generally open in the evenings...(and not every evening either)....so the "negative affect" of a bike lane would be very minimal..as the bikes are generally utilized in the daylight hours....you still have the burrard issue...as that is likely a better bridge for this use with its wide sidewalks....
On Homeless issue ...I also agree this is purely a provincial onus - to provide and build - homeless housing....this is not a municipal issue to solve with Vanc. taxpayer $$....The municipal govt...should have an onus on "temporary shelters" in bad weather.... if you disagree - just presume for arguments sake that all homeless persons went to (insert small town here) ....like Lions Bay or Bowen Is. ...Should such a small tax base and local government be responsible to build their housing...I dont think so....Same in the big city...we get homeless from all across Canada due to our climate and other reasons...it is an issue for the sitting Provincial Govt. to fix....The EastSide is the next Yaletown...over the next 10-20 yrs...that is why these companies (Altira) are all over that realestate! ....its a no brainer....but these are not hard issues to force a vote for either NPA or VV.....we need more substance than this....issues that are more hard and fast municipal issues in the CofV.... NPA only had 100 people at their recent meeting....COPE over 1000...NPA does not attract the grass roots people....Vision is clearly a centralist party in the middle - not hard left or right....They are also the dominant party in the City, and a force to be reckoned with....Gregor still as a strong support....Just listen to NW980 850-9 am today on the audio vault - BillGood Show to get a pretty good synopsis
(sorry Mike..) but lets call a spade a spade...and lost the nonsense rhetoric....

There seems to be a problem with comments on your two Cadman posts.I am unable to get to the comments.

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