Return to school = traffic chaos. Is there a way we can prevent it?

Post by Daniel Fontaine in

104 comments

trafficjams.jpg Parents flood Vancouver streets to drive their kids to schools across town

Okay summer is now officially over and we’re into the fall season. It’s been a few weeks since we unwillingly put away our flip flops in exchange for a pair of loafers and dress shoes. As the tans begin to fade, some of us are turning a different shade of red as we deal with all the traffic mess on our streets post Labour Day.

If you are a regular commuter in Metro Vancouver, it’s hard to miss how post-holiday traffic patterns in our region are vastly different than what we experienced when school was out. With our universities and K-12 school system in hiatus, there was suddenly a lot more elbow room on the roads.

So what gives? Can it really be that the re-opening of our school system in September has that much of an impact on producing traffic congestion? It certainly would appear so.

If the return to school itself weren’t bad enough, consider the fact that parents have the option to send their kids to schools miles outside their catchment area. All of these lengthy commutes add to the overall level of gridlock.

Visit almost any school in the Vancouver School District at about 8:30 am if you want to see what I’m talking about. At some of the more “popular” west side schools; it is a virtual traffic gridlock as hundreds of parents in their SUVs drop off their kids each day. I have no doubt a significant portion of those vehicles are students being driven to school from well outside the local neighbourhood.

I simply can’t imagine the carbon footprint of a policy that allows kids living in Vancouver’s eastside to get driven to and from University Hill elementary each day. Yet school boards are powerless to do anything as the decision to eliminate the catchment area policy came from the Province.

With traffic gridlock a virtual fact of life when school is back in session, is there a way for us to get out of this mess we’ve created? Some policy wonks believe that year round schooling might help. However, I just happen to think that will only serve to increase the amount of traffic on our roads in July and August.

I think what is needed is some ingenuity and innovation regarding the way we plan our cities. If we do it right, we should be able to get more kids walking to school each day. The net positive effects to our health care system could be enormous.

The million dollar question is how do we do it? What policy levers do city governments have to reduce the post-labour day traffic chaos on our streets? If you have any ideas, please feel free to leave a comment and participate in the debate.

- Post by Daniel. You can follow us on on Twitter @CityCaucus or you can "like" us on Facebook at facebook.com/citycaucus.

104 Comments

It would be great if bloggers started using 'gridlock' more accurately. It's not a bit of a delay getting to school or work. It's not even a traffic jam slowing down many lanes of traffic. It's when traffic isn't moving in any direction. We simply don't get that kind of situation regularly in Vancouver. The briefest listen to local traffic reports demonstrates this reality.

So, the real situation is there's no 'chaos'. There's some inconvenience and delays. Pretty much a given when we rely on an inefficient vehicle (the car) to prop up the outdated 9 to 5 gotta be at the office paradigm long past its due date.

The answer to school zone traffic issues are pretty straightforward, albeit expensive and unpopular in a car-centric transportation system.

In fact, most of the heavy-lifting in terms of solutions has already been done. All we need is the political will to make them happen.

How about investing in the less desirable schools so that parents don't feel the need to drive through multiple municipalities to ensure that their kids get the education they deserve?? How about more separated bike lanes so people feel comfortable commuting by bike?

On another note, how about showing us a picture of what the gridlock in Vancouver actually looks like? This photo of Perth doesn't really represent what I see in Vancouver as I commute from North Burnaby to the Downtown Eastside, and I go through many a school zone.

That photo isn't Vancouver.

Duh! Of course that photo isn't Vancouver. Do you ever read this blog? I think it was meant as an illustration to get your attention. Guess it worked. But somehow I don't think adding bike lanes is going to be the simple answer.

How about a simple educational message:

Car crashes are the #1 cause of death of school-aged children in North America. If you love your kids, don’t drive them to school.

Mr. Keam,
I can see you on a bike on a day like today. But you'll not see me, or my wife Sir. We still need our vehicle to move around. I served well this city and this society for more than 40 years. I believe I won the right to not have to take advice from people like you and listen to those hypocrites called Vision Vancouver that are driving (actually riding) you to make these kind of one sided commentaries.
Your shelf time have expired Sir. I believe is time for change, and you & Vision friends are not it!

Now, do us senior people in Vancouver a favor,go do something useful with your time. You already wasted mine!

Dr. Richard Unger (MD) Ret.

I don't have any solutions to offer here, but what I did want to say is that I liked this post a lot more than most here. Too often this is a bitter partisan blog with the lone goal of pinning blame on Vision Vancouver for any minor issue. In this post though, while you do suggest some who may be at fault (the provincial government's catchment policy), the focus is on finding positive solutions to make life better for the people of Vancouver.

While I may disagree with you on many things, I appreciate when we can focus on solutions rather than problems.

So maybe the photo caption shouldn't say "Parents flood Vancouver streets to drive their kids to schools across town"

So why don't you use a picture of Vancouver? That is probably some place in China but not Vancouver. Shot your credibility there.

humour [ˈhjuːmə]
n
1. the quality of being funny
2. Also called sense of humour the ability to appreciate or express that which is humorous
3. the quality lacking in several previous posters

I love when silly exaggerations get called out and the exaggerator always defaults to 'it's a joke, relax'.

Yet, the picture would still look the same...:-)
And to Dr.Unger, a bit earlier, thank you for speaking out your mind Richard!
we need the senior's voice in here too not only that of the plants/ proxies on this blog, all middle-age bike riders in lycra suits and all, that have hot flashes as soon as they see a topic like this. Voice of reason in them? Nowhere to be seen unfortunately.
Say it ain't so comrades!

Ahhh Ned, here it is again.

"not only that of the plants/proxies on this blog "

I wonder what brings you people to this assumption. Is it that you can't fathom someone has a different opinion? That they dare speak it on this blog or that? Or what is it? It's truly confusing.

Pat J
I think it is very appropriate to point out the the point in history that changed everything for parents ....

"Clifford Olsen"

after that point in time parents started to drive children to school...can you blame them...

I agree that it is silly that so many people drive high school students to school. It fosters dependency in many ways. But I can't say that the solution is to force people to go to local schools. In general I think allowing people choises is a good thing, and that includes a choice of which school they go to. That said, all three of my kids went to local schools for elementary and secondary, and they all walked or biked to those schools.

I'm told that many parents are afraid to let their children walk to school and so drive them even if it's only 2 or 3 blocks. One would think the PAC and school could work out some kind of block watch / buddy system.

Back to school may be part of the problem, and don't forget school includes post secondary - there's what, +/-60,000 to and from UBC every day. The other part is the parents and even those not who have spent the summer in balmy locales such as Desolation Sound are also back in the harness.

"I'm told that many parents are afraid to let their children walk to school and so drive them even if it's only 2 or 3 blocks."

Which is lunacy considering you are exponentially more likely to die/get injured driving those 3 blocks than by some boogyman in the bush. Not to mention the health benefits of walking--we're all familiar with the obesity epidemic in the US/Canada...

Wish I had spent my summer up in Desolation Sound. One year I hope.

We have a lot of children in our area and I still see many of them walk to school.
They are however, with other children and have had had many conversations with their parents on what to do if there is a problem.

As far as driving teenagers to school!!

What teenager wouldn't whine and beg for a drive?

They can sleep in, take forever and still get to school in time.

boohoo, you are obviously too young to remember the days of Clifford Olson and how he changed how children were delivered to school over night.

And you can't say it was a one off...

Perfect example George. A child is 100x more likely to die in a car accident on the way to school than be murdered by a stranger (the actual car death rate is 10x the murder rate, but about 92% of child murders are by family of close friend: the very people likely to be driving them to school). The fact that so many caring parents significantly increase the risk to their child when they think they are keeping them safe demonstrates that education is needed.

You are insulting parents who are very concerned about their children.
I am more interested in working to get neighbours to know each other and that way their children can walk together to school.

If they don't live in the area of their school, maybe there can be some form of carpooling.

Posting murder statistics and car death statistics is really low.

Never too late Steven. Though, they call it Hollyhock these days :-)!
The problem is, Vision people want you to live in Vancouver like they are vacationing up there, sorry, no can do. This is a place for grown ups, City... different rules.
But hey, they have got the money, and they don't have to work for a living, so I guess that's what makes it right for them...
And the picture is lovely. It looks like Granville Island, the moving parking, on a weekend, during the Fringe festival, so get over yourselves people!

Huh? Recognizing that parents’ decisions are usually based on concern for their children is insulting? I wasn’t the one who brought child killers into the discussion here, I was the one who pointed out that was a spurious argument. Is pointing out that parents’ fears might be a little misplaced “low”? Have I said something that is false?

I never said it was a one off. But it's statistically insignificant (I would image) relative to automobile accidents.

The picture is from Delhi.

Dr. Unger:

I didn't even mention bikes. But happy to go there if you want to talk about healthy, safe ways for children to get to school.

cheers,

CK

"Yet school boards are powerless to do anything as the decision to eliminate the catchment area policy came from the Province."

"The million dollar question is how do we do it? What policy levers do city governments have to reduce the post-labour day traffic chaos on our streets?"

These two quotes are perfect for when people claim that citycaucus.com is a right-wing blog. Next time it happens, you can point to this article and say "See! We want to take away the rights of parents too! We're just like y'all on the left, we believe "policy levers" are the only way to solve problems, and we only want to pull the "inflate government" lever. To top it off, we believe in these ridiculously flawed concepts due to our fear of Al Gore's scary Manbearpig!"

Private roads, private schools. No forcing, no "nudging", no central planning. There's your solution.

Dear CityCaucus..
Why are my comments not being approved?

How about 'if you love your children, don't drive them to school'

I guess the reverse would be 'if you don't love your children, drive them to school'

That's the problem with blanket statements. They are way too polarizing.

Car vs bike vs walk.

p.s.

I don't drive and I'm getting tired of all the posters who want to make people with cars into villains.

Pat J here is another perfect example ...

Renee Bernard Sep 22, 2011 21:55:54 PM

ALDERGROVE (NEWS1130) - A very frightening situation for a teenaged girl in Aldergrove Thursday afternoon.

The grade 12 student was walking near Aldergrove Community secondary on 32 Ave. during the noon hour when she was approached by a man who asked if she needed a ride, and when she declined, asked directions to the airport.

He left, then returned and tried to grab her. "She fought him off. She did the right thing. She managed to break free and reported it to police," says RCMP Cpl. Holly Marks.

"As you can imagine she is quite shaken up. We are working with her now in the hopes we can prepare a composite drawing, as well as obtain footage from some traffic cameras in the area that might be able to assist us."

The man is white, in his early 30s, about five-foot-eight, thin, has brown hair and was wearing a white t-shirt with a black steering wheel emblem on it.

He was driving a bright red Dodge Dakota pickup truck with a matching canopy, and rust on the front.

Most things end up on the news because they are unusual, not because they are commonplace.

"Most things end up on the news because they are unusual"

Like weddings funerals and advertising...

How many of these parents are dropping off their kids and then driving to work?To blame them for gridlock is really a stretch.The positives are that parents are much closer with their kids then they used to be because of the extra time they spend together,they meet other parents,they meet their kids friends,and most important is they have piece of mind knowing their safe.Im closer with my grand kids than I ever was with my own parents,when I was a kid it was out the door in the morning and not see them until six at night.Of course the anti car lobby is going to try to find this responsible act somehow evil.

Those aren't news items George. You hear about this attempted abduction because it's uncommon.

Did you know an elderly pedestrian was killed yesterday by a car in Langley? That a school bus was t-boned by a mustang in Surrey? That an 18 year old died near Prince George in a crash?

Those are barely news anymore because it's ho hum common place.

Getting pretty silly there g-man. You really think the parents dropping there kids off at school are talking to other parents? Maybe, when they rear end each other in their haste to get away. The parents who walk or bike with their kids to school are much more likely to interact. Cars do not promote community. They lock people up in boxes. Cycling and especially walking do a lot more to make communities communities, to make them safe and to promote commerce.

the tag team of boohoo and Chris Keam..

what you both seem to forget is that in a free democracy we all have freedom of choice...

your cycling agenda tries very hard to prove that our choice is wrong and your choice is right...what makes your choice superior to others..

The hypocrisy is astounding..some of us don't believe the sky is falling ...but you don't allow us that freedom of belief ..why is that..

Some of us can't ride a bike... so we chose to take our children to school in a car...would it make a difference if it was an electric car....

If your answer is yes.. then you are bigger hypocrites than I have you pegged for..

Unfortunately, this conversation turned immediately confrontational, which was not my intention. I also drive a car, and I often commute by bicycle. My point is that part of the solution to solving the traffic situation around schools is to educate parents that your kids can walk or cycle to school safely, and you are not a bad or uncaring parent if you let (make?) your kids walk or cycle to school. Instead, you helping build their self-confidence, their situational awareness, their responsibility, and their fitness.

Of course, this also relies on the “safe routes to schools” initiatives, to assure that routes to school are safe, with appropriate pedestrian crossings, speeding controls in neighbourhoods, and appropriate and robust bicycle and pedestrian infrastructure around schools and in our neighbourhoods.

I think this falls partially under the category on “unintended consequences” of the open-catchment philosophy. But “unintended consequences” have been a mainstay of pretty much all BC Liberal policy for the last decade.

"your cycling agenda tries very hard to prove that our choice is wrong and your choice is right...what makes your choice superior to others.."

This isn't about being wrong or right George. We're sharing information.

"The hypocrisy is astounding..some of us don't believe the sky is falling ...but you don't allow us that freedom of belief ..why is that.."

I don't know what you're getting at here? What belief?

"Some of us can't ride a bike... so we chose to take our children to school in a car...would it make a difference if it was an electric car...."

And this has NEVER been about those who HAVE to drive because of disability, work, whatever. It's those that CHOOSE to drive.
...you completely ignored my point btw.

"Studies show that fewer children are walking and biking to school, and more children are at risk of becoming overweight. A walking school bus is a group of children walking to school with one or more adults. A variation on the walking school bus is the bicycle train, in which adults supervise children riding their bikes to school.

http://www.walkingschoolbus.org/

Silly Steven,really?I do it every day,thats where play dates are made,after school programs are discussed and phone numbers are exchanged.It doesnt matter if its through a rolled down window or sitting in the playground its a good thing.You assume to know what everyones schedule is and you want them to conform to your way of thinking.You try to paint a picture of a bunch of lazy mothers in an suv that have no time for their kids,well your wrong.There are two types of people in the world,those who want to be left alone and those who wont leave them alone.I will continue it until shes old enough to go by herself,and even then I might follow at a distance for time.Already when she brings friends to my house after school I have to walk 20yds. behind cause it makes them feel all grown up.

didn't ignore your point of view boo, just pointed out that your view is very narrow..

What? I asked you a question in there as well.

Sorry boo I missed your question..

""I don't know what you're getting at here? What belief?""

The belief that it is a better choice cycle... what if my "CHOICE" is to drive...I love cars and I love to drive..why is there a problem..it's legal isn't it?

Stephan.. shouldn't my weight and the weight of my child be my business?

In a free democracy I believe that is my right,,, and none of anyone's business but my own.

"The belief that it is a better choice cycle... what if my "CHOICE" is to drive...I love cars and I love to drive..why is there a problem..it's legal isn't it?"

This isn't a legal issue obviously, that's got nothing to do with it.

Whether or not cycling is a better for the environment or your health is not up for debate George. Or at least I don't think it is--do you?

That's great that you love cars. But surely you see if everyone chooses to drive because they want to, well--what do you think the result of that would be?

"Stephan.. shouldn't my weight and the weight of my child be my business? In a free democracy I believe that is my right,,, and none of anyone's business but my own."

Your weight is not the issue. But I'm wondering if you don't see the connections between car culture and obesity/health issues?

"Like weddings funerals and advertising... "

There's a world of difference between paid advertising, obits, and wedding announcements, and news.

"your cycling agenda tries very hard to prove that our choice is wrong and your choice is right...what makes your choice superior to others.."

Again, nobody is talking about cycling here except those folks desperate to throw up red herrings.

It's too bad. It's makes a productive discussion of the actual issue and potential solutions nearly impossible.

"How many of these parents are dropping off their kids and then driving to work?To blame them for gridlock is really a stretch.The positives are that parents are much closer with their kids then they used to be because of the extra time they spend together,they meet other parents,they meet their kids friends,and most important is they have piece of mind knowing their safe."

I have the exact same experience regarding quality time with my child and meeting other parents whether I walk with my child to school, take the bus, ride our bikes, or drive. It has nothing to do with the mode choice. You might have a point you were distinguishing between a school bus, walking w/out parents, and accompanying your child to the schoolyard, but there's no reason a car is necessary to spend a little time with one's kid, or have the opportunity to talk to other parents.

Some of you folks talk a good game about freedom to choose, but you seem unable to walk the walk and accept choices or viewpoints that don't agree with your preconceptions.

"would it make a difference if it was an electric car....


The issue raised by this blog post was that of traffic congestion. Electric cars don't address that issue, so, no, it doesn't make a difference.

blah blah blah...bikes.... blah blah blah...bikes...eyes rolling...bikes....tuned out...

For anyone interested in this topic (I know I am) there's been excellent work done right here in Canada regarding kids and mobility.

http://www.kidsonthemove.ca/index.htm

our kids go to community center, gymnastics, ballet class,hip hop classes, rock climbing...swim team, and very big into horseback riding...we drive them there, they are all skinny as rakes...

That's lovely George. Unfortunately, some of us are trying to have an intelligent discussion about traffic congestion around schools... and your attempts to derail the conversation are making it hard to share solutions.

cheers,

CK

CK,nowhere in my comment did I say a car was necessary to spend time with your kid,so please dont put words in my mouth. Oh and Chris "some of you folks" you folks really,that shows me you think pretty highly of yourself.Looks like a swing and a miss chris.

Fair enough Gman. You didn't say those things. You did however, say that driving one's kid to school brings parents and kids together and allows them more time together. Other than anecdote, do you have anything substantive to back up this assertion?

AHHH right on que.... Chris uses the intelligence card...so predictable...

Ya right chris,film at 11.

George:

Do you have anything of substance to add? Because I can't understand your mono-mania for trying to take me to task. It's boring for other people reading this thread and it certainly adds nothing to the discussion.

The issue is traffic congestion around schools. It's caused by a wide range of factors. There's a number of approaches to dealing with the issue, ranging from limiting parking in school zones, to more expensive alternatives, such as making sure there are schools within walking distance of as many children as possible.

There's also no/low cost solutions, such as parents working together to create walking school buses (already mentioned upthread), having older children be responsible for getting the little ones safely to school, and creating safer roads that make it feasible for intermediate and high school kids to get to school under their own power, be it skateboard, bicycle, or whatever. These initiatives also need a modicum of road safety training at an early age, so that children are equipped to make good decisions.

But, when you start from a false premise, namely that the school commute is creating 'gridlock' and 'chaos' then it's going to be hard to find reasonable solutions to the challenge.

answers to my questions George?

"Ya right chris,film at 11."

Maybe the U.N. is suppressing the info you need to prove your point Gman?

Probably part of their plot to hide the real cause of climate change (reverse vampires, duh) and force us all to pledge allegiance to the Queen, which as you well know, is really a lizard person from a distant galaxy.

p.s. It's the corgis who really call the shots.

I find it quite remarkable that something as simple and basic as riding a bike has become a divisive issue in municipal politics. It really goes to the incompetence of Gregor Robertson and his chief cyclist henchman, ex-union boss Meggs. VV, and these two in particular, have proven themselves incompetent at implementing something so simple as bike lanes. Robertson is the CEO of Vancouver. He is responsible for execution of policy. All of us learned to ride bikes when we were say 5-6 years old. Something that universal and basic is now a topic of acrimonious debate because VV, and again singling out Robertson and Meggs, are so incredibly inept at implementing a cycling policy. But the fumbling of this issue is really only emblematic of the sophomoric efforts to implement other somewhat more important policy. Let the bike lane debate continue but lets keep in mind Mom and Dad took off our training wheels and let us ride on the roads with the the big kids with much less rancour than VV let the cycling lobby take over the streets of Vancouver.

Get rid of the bike lanes. No one really uses them.

"It really goes to the incompetence of Gregor Robertson and his chief cyclist henchman, ex-union boss Meggs. VV, and these two in particular, have proven themselves incompetent at implementing something so simple as bike lanes."

What nonsense. The same hue and cry goes up in every city that puts in cycling infrastructure. It has nothing to do with which politician is running the show, and everything to do with the push-back that accompanies shifts in cultural attitudes.

The same scenario is playing out in London, Sydney, New York, Portland, Los Angeles, and countless other cities around the world.

that's part of the problem Skippy.

Not everybody has had very good instruction in bike riding.
I've seen adults wobbling on bikes who have obviously not had good (or any) instruction.But biking is good for you so they'll jump on a bike for the first time and scare themselves and others.

I've also seen people who may have had instruction when they were younger break every rule in the book.
Riding on sidewalks, no helmets, listening to music while they ride.
Even Text messaging!!!

Teaching children is the start to safe biking,getting adults to pay attention to the rules is another thing.

I believe this is why this issue has become so politically 'HOT'

Your post proves my point. Bike riding is prolific and common. With the experiences you write about in other cities, assuming you are factually correct which I do not concede, but again assuming you are correct, one would think that the Mayor and ex-union boss Meggs would have used some foresight in implementing bike lanes to manage what as you suggest would be the inevitable backlash. But , that did not happen because of incompetence and quite frankly arrogance. We all have rode bikes in our lives and some of us continue to enjoy cycling. Not rocket science that it is healthy and does not emit any exhaust. What was absent from VV was the finesse and political skill required to properly implement this as part of a transportation strategy for the City.

Skippy:

Much of what we get from the cycling lobbyists can be found here:

http://averagejoecyclist.com/?p=2694

As for congestion around the schools, lots of people drop their kids off on their way to work - at least the people I know. And most of their kids have after school activities so the kids are then picked up and are off to hockey, soccer, speed skating etc.

Max,
I met a lovely couple yesterday pushing a stroller with their little one.
Of course the conversation turned to law breaking cyclists and unnecessary bike lanes.
The interesting part of the conversation was that the woman comes from I believe she said Denmark...she said she found it funny they have a wonderful bike system, and she found that Vancouver has it COMPLETELY backwards.
She noted that in Denmark the bikes are not treated like cars as we do here, they are in their rightful place and the system works very well...the problem here is that cyclists feel that they are entitled to the roadways...and the politics are the problem..and I am in total agreement..I have no problem with bikes or bike lanes...I have a problem with the politics of entitlement that cyclists seem to push on the rest of society..

George said:

"cyclists feel that they are entitled to the roadways...and the politics are the problem..and I am in total agreement..I have no problem with bikes or bike lanes...I have a problem with the politics of entitlement that cyclists seem to push on the rest of society."

So, really what you don't like are people who recognize the law as it stands... which clearly states that cyclists are allowed to use roadways.

Skippy:

Point out a city that had no backlash to bike lanes and you might have a leg to stand on.

Traffic around schools is an important issue. Too bad people are trying to derail the conversation and make it about bike lanes. A real disservice to our young people, esp. when they are being used as pawns in a political game.

Chris;

Glad you recognize the law as it stands, which I would hope includes: cyclists not riding on sidewalks, cyclists obeying the traffic laws (I can't even count how many times in a one week period I see cyclists blow red lights); and yes, that pesky helmet law.

no Chris...I don't like bullies...please stop twisting my words..that is what a bully does..

I will defer to your expertise on the ubiquitous unpopularity of bike lanes in urban settings. My view is that Robertson and ex-union boss Meggs should have learned from the experiences of these other cities you blog about and applied some political acumen in our case here in Vancouver. That is the lack of competence and where they simply bowed to the cycling lobby. My question for you is on a beautiful day like this, why are you hunched over a computer and not out cycling????

George,

Are you going to answer my questions? I feel like you're avoiding...

Traffic around schools is an important issue. Too bad people are trying to derail the conversation and make it about bike lanes, cycling, traffic laws, and apparently my Saturday routine. A real disservice to our young people, when a challenging problem awaits courageous political action and public discussion.

I'll just sit back and observe at this point, rather than be the catalyst for a derail. A link to an important Cdn document on schools and transportation was provided. I would encourage anyone interested in the topic to review its recommendations.

I did read through the document you had linked to and yes there is some good stuff in there that should be promoted by school districts to encourage kids get to school other than by motor vehicle. Better and more plentiful bike racks and I would favour the notion of off road trails that kids can ride on to get to school. I think that would make it different and a little more fun. I am not sure of the practicality and cost though. I would note that on page 39 of the report the authors state that bike lanes on paved roads are a last resort.

Chris, wouldn't the appropriate thought sequence be:

'A real disservice to our young people, when a challenging problem awaits public discussion AND THEN courageous political action.'?

Instead of nit-picking Bill, tell us what you plan to do about the issue if elected.

sorry boo what questions? I must have missed it..
no avoiding, went grocery shopping...took the car, looked like rain.

LOL spoken by the King of nit pick..

Not only have I already provided a link to a number of possible solutions, I'm not running for office. Go stalk somebody else for a change George.


CK

Stalking what an interesting choice of words. Public forum Chris, the only one that can ban me from this blog is Danial....not you.

I strongly suggest you file a complaint with the owner of the blog, and or police if you really feel that you are being stalked. That is a serious very charge...one I don't take lightly.

I seriously recommend you go back through this thread Chris and notice who engaged who...if anyone is being stalked Chris it is me..and this is not the first time..

So much for your sitting back and not derailing the conversation...lighten up...go for a bike ride, or are you on the clock?

The most IRONIC thing about all of these posts is the FACT that the population of Vancouver is growing older.

The baby boomers aren't going to need bike lanes as they get older.
They are going to need scooter and wheelchair lanes.

We are trying to act as if this city is filled with young people.

And it isn't!
It may act like it, but it isn't.

All the young people(from all local cities) come here to party.

Granville Entertainment District, anyone?

Oh George:

I don't need to run to teacher. The fact is I addressed your comments that were almost on topic. You just want to have an argument. It's typical of you and rather boring.

cheers,

CK

It is not only an aging population, we have a very large immigrant community that values cars.

And people live busy lives. Work, kids in school, after school activities...

I am sure many have bikes, but use them primarily for recreation purposes.

My little mother called to tell me their neighbor, a lovely lady who is 57, fell off her bike feet from her driveway. The result, pins and a plate in her hip.

She was/is in horrible pain.

So, Chris, Richard and others - do you still maintain biking is for everyone????

scroll down and look george, i asked you several specific questions. you may have had to go get groceries but you've replied to others so....

No max, like has been pointed out numerous times to you--there is no one solution fits all.

Sorry boohoo, but I disagree.

There are folks on here that have their own agenda, regardless.

And I am not addressing those on other sites that more or less state older people have no right to life, ice flow time, they are being selfish and taking up room. All well forgetting that these same people have forged they way for lifestyles many of us take for granted.

And I need to add, 57 is far from old.

I work with a gentleman who just celebrated his 75th b-day and can mentally outpace most 20 years olds. If not, the company would not keep him around.

Sorry boo.. not going to go back thru these posts. really not interested. .. from memory ..??

1. Do I think cars contribute to obesity... NO if you put too much in mouth...butt gets bigger.. my opinion/common sense.

2. Do I think cars cause global warming, no I don't ..I personally think that is up to God..I don't buy into Al Gores opinions..hard to believe a guy that lied about inventing the internet LOL..

3. If everyone wants to drive a car that is their choice..Just as transit is a choice..
To be honest I am a pedestrian and a transit user..no car..;-)So if anyone has a right to be upset about the crap being forced on the city it is my community. I can't and won't ride a bike, disability, no interest, fear of injury..

4.Bike lanes and cycling in the city could have been handled more rationally. Gregor tried too much too fast. I also think the cyclists themselves have created problems by not respecting the public and obeying laws.

5. The cycling coalition and their politics have caused so much division..I also blame the Mayor that used the cycling community for votes...he forced this angst on the public without considering everyone's needs..he pandered to special interest groups...it has divided a city..

Pedestrians and transit users are the ones being screwed big time.Cyclists have taken the roads and the sidewalks.

We have become a nanny state and very divided..it will lead to big problems and more than likely from what I hear, people are planning to sue...

Then we have the riot...this city in my opinion is screwed because of Vision and Gregor Robertson...

Hope I've covered everything for you boohoo..now the next time we ask you to show us the same respect and answer our questions without the sarcasm..

This is my last comment on this thread, as I'm now off to the next topic...Roberson's Riot..

Thanks George. You got it, but Chris, you've missed my point. I suspect you're trying another diversionary tactic. If you wish to know what I will do about bike lanes, please see my several previous comments here and on Bula on the subject. I believe you are very familiar with each and every one of them.

And, by the way it's not "nit picking", it's ones abilities to establish appropriate priorities. You and Gregor and his Vision friends seem to have very similarly misplaced priorities with respect to knowing when to engage the public in the process -- would that not be before the "courageous decisions" are implemented, not after? Numerous other Vision examples come to mind, but I'm sure you'd agree that the bike lanes are perhaps one example.

"If you wish to know what I will do about bike lanes"

I want to know what you will do about traffic congestion around schools Bill, aka the topic of the original blog post.

Thanks, I look forward to hearing about concrete solutions.

CK

"You and Gregor and his Vision friends seem to have very similarly misplaced priorities with respect to knowing when to engage the public in the proces"

For starters, I used 'and' in my sentence and didn't indicate action needed to precede discussion. That's nitpicking. Secondly, dismissing a resident's concerns by aligning them with your political enemies, despite the fact there's no evidence for same and in reality such a alliance doesn't exist is incredibly disrespectful of my interest in living in a city that's safer for school age children and a clear sign you're not ready to lead.

I've never given a single cent to any political party, or volunteered my time for same. The antics of some NPA candidates is making me rethink my position. Your practice of misrepresenting the interests and opinions of private citizens is not the behaviour of a leader.

who said 57 was old? i guess i don't know what you're refering to... But, sure people have agendas-- you do, i do, everyone does- i guess i'm taking that to mean there's some nefarious hidden puppet master behind some posts/posters. that's silly.

George,

If you can't be bothered to go back and read questions, why are you even here? You complain when people twist your words and cry 'bully' and here I am asking for your words and you can't even be bothered to read the question.

1. You're wrong. Google automobile and obesity for dozens of scientific articles proving the link.

2. I never said anything about global warming...? Your obvious disdain for science is scary.

3. I agree it is their choice, but what's the consequence of that?

4. Respecting the public and laws? Why does that complaint seem matter more with cyclists than drivers?

5. As has been said before, the 'angst' among the screaming minority is just that, a minority. Most people don't give a crap about the bike lanes, I know I wouldn't if I didn't visit this site. I've never used the ones downtown.

Laughable you talk about respect when you don't even have the courtesy to read the questions directed to you.

Bravo! Didn't you write something similar to this, not so long ago??

I'd be interested in knowing your solutions to traffic chaos around schools.

Hi one of many chrises:

As I noted earlier, there has already been a great deal of work done right here in Canada on approaches and solutions to transportation for children. I think the recommendations provided here:

http://www.kidsonthemove.ca/index.htm

are an excellent start. Sadly, much of the power for positive change in this area lie in the provincial/federal arena, and both of those levels of government have shown little interest in taking a leadership position regarding transportation improvements that go beyond the log it, burn it, pave it mentality.

Chris, I did not say you are a member of Vision. And, I did not connect you to them directly. I did say:

"You, and Gregor and his Vision friends SEEM to have very SIMILARLY misplaced priorities with respect to knowing when to engage the public in the process."

It is clear that I have simply pointed out the obvious. I have no doubt been influenced by the frequency, tone and intensity of your comments generally over time that have left me with, albeit not a direct connection, but certainly an association between you and Vision due to the similarities of many of your and their positions on things. However, perhaps I was to hasty in putting you in the same sentence with Gregor & co. in the context of this particular subject.

I read the report
I would describe it as a gentle, utopian report based on when people lived one block from their school.

It reminds me of nostalgia:

Ward comes home from work (What did he do for a living ?)
June was waiting (wearing her pearl necklace.)
Kids are all happy from bike riding around the neighbourhood by themselves.

MY mother worked full time(many,many years ago)

I headed off to school by myself.Elementary school.

Won't happen now.

Vancouver can never again be a sleepy little village by the sea.

Mccreery:

"certainly an association between you and Vision due to the similarities of many of your and their positions on things. "

There is no, zero, zip, nada association between me and Vision. The only position you can possibly connect between myself and that particular party is support for enhanced cycling infrastructure in Vancouver. A position I believe you also hold. Should I assume there's an association between you and Vision based upon this similarity in viewpoint. Please, stop trying to pigeonhole private citizens and get busy coming up with a concrete platform that allows voters to judge you on your merits.

thank you,

Chris Keam

One of many chrises:

We can make Vancouver be however we want it to be. Doesn't have to be a sleepy city by the sea just because we make it easier for kids to get to school.

We might not ever achieve all of kidsonthemove's goals. But it's worth making some small effort towards its recommendations. In this entire thread no one save myself has offered a single concrete idea to address the problem. If that's our M.O. then yes, our kids are screwed. I'd like to think we can do better than that.

I shouldn't say no one has come up with ideas. Pat J I believe floated the idea of walking school buses. The exception proves the rule I suppose.

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