It's Robertson's Riot

Post by Mike Klassen in


Vancouver cops get well-deserved laurels from citizens after the hockey riot – photo: PNG

On Friday, Daniel Fontaine wrote that the "teflon mayor" was getting a free pass after successfully spinning Wednesday's Vancouver riot as the work of a few louts who should be locked up. But what was true 24 hours after the riot is less true now. Quite a few members of the media and general public are starting to understand the facts of what happened, and what led up to the situation of having 100,000+ people descend into Vancouver's downtown.

Some of local media's most respected voices such as Vaughn Palmer, Keith Baldrey and Michael Smyth are saying things like "Robertson has a lot to answer for" when it comes to the lack of preparedness during the Game 7 party. Then there is business leader and CKNW commentator Bruce Allen, whose pull-no-punches views about Gregor Robertson were blasted over the airwaves on Friday's Bill Good Show (clip):

How widely sentiments like Allen's are held is unknown. But there is no doubting that the 2011 riot has become a political game changer.

Here's why I think Gregor Robertson must be held politically accountable for what happened in downtown Vancouver last Wednesday evening.

  1. The huge downtown party was his decision and his only. Those who understand how Vancouver City Hall works, decisions are usually made by the eleven member city council. The choice to partner with the CBC, close off streets, hire giant video screens from the U.S. and to invite one and all was Mayor Robertson's call. It was not a decision of council, and it was never brought to council for discussion.
  2. The political imperatives were all Vision's. Coun. Andrea Reimer was thanked by Mayor Gregor in council for her part in organizing the fan zones. Reimer is the Vision council's point person on "car free" events. On the "fun city" file, Coun. Heather Deal takes the lead. In a CBC interview the day of the riot, Deal assured the public that post-Olympics riots were a thing of the past. She stated, "We’re over 100,000 now. We know how to deal with 100,000. If it’s 120,000 we’ll deal with 120,000. If they’re cranky, we’ll deal with cranky.” Finally, there's Geoff Meggs' stated desire to get rid of the Georgia Street Viaduct. What better example of that concept than to shut down a major thoroughfare for a party? The Vancouver riot has put a wrinkle in more political agendas than at first blush.
  3. A critical lesson of the Olympics was not learned. Vancouver should have learned a painful lesson from a crowd control incident at the LiveCity site during the Olympics. At a concert featuring Alexisonfire a fence barricade in front of the stage collapsed, breaking the leg of a girl and injuring several others. That girl's father is now suing the City of Vancouver. The attempt to fence in crowds on Georgia Street Wednesday night proved disastrous, with dozens crushed behind them. Did the exuberance over the Canucks' success make the City forget the mistakes of just one year ago? Remember that the LiveCity sites were liquor-free and limited numbers allowed in. Not so in the fan zones.
  4. The lessons of the 1994 riot ignored. Vision Vancouver have cleaned house of senior management since taking office, leaving virtually no corporate memory going back more than a decade. The report done by with the help of Bob Whitelaw outlining over 100 recommendations on how to deal with big events relating to sport was not observed during the run-up to Game 7. Sources within City Hall indicate that a hard copy of the report was only sought out by staff the day after the riot.
  5. Vancouver police were "grossly understaffed" to suit the event. According to Vancouver Police union boss Tom Stamatakis: “If you want to manage a crowd like that effectively without having it turn into a riot, then we need probably 5,000 police officers.” It's estimated that there were between 400 to 500 officers working on Wednesday night downtown.
  6. B.C. government officials warned of potential problems. Liquor officials two days before Game 7 issued a press release stating: "The general manager of the Liquor Control and Licensing Branch has determined there is again a real and serious threat to public safety that warrants the closure of 13 private and six public liquors stores located in downtown Vancouver." Why was the potential for trouble ignored?

The work on the frontlines by Vancouver's PSU (Public Safety Unit, aka 'riot squad'), as well as supporting security provided by RCMP was first rate. The work of our fire fighters, paramedics and emergency medical personnel given the swiftness and the scale of the riot was exemplary. The public recognizes this, and even days after the compliments of our police force are still coming in.

Under Chief Jim Chu a culture change has occurred which has our police conducting themselves in a much less aggressive stance. Instead of being modeled after military-esque American-style policing, Vancouver's police have adopted a more sublime British-style of policing under Chu.

The question I have though is how much pressure was put on Chu by his bosses Robertson and Ballem to ensure Vancouver didn't go back to being a "no fun city"? Statements by Chu and Ballem herself prior to the riot show them both in denial regarding the possibility of a riot.

There is no question in my mind that Vancouver's police dealt with Wednesday's riot in a manner that most Canadians expect. There weren't tanks or water cannons. Innocents were not rolled over, though the account of the so-called "kiss" photo suggests that the girl on the ground got clipped by a police shield. Yes, there was an enormous amount of unforgiveable property damage and looting. But unlike 1994 there are no kids brain-damaged by rubber bullets, and importantly, no fatalities or serious injuries resulting from riot control.

No one I know thinks that saving cameras and cosmetics from a department store would be worth killing someone, nor should there be.

There have been innumerable articles written in recent days about the warning signs that existed prior to the riot. Stephen Quinn's latest column in the Globe and Mail is one of the more enjoyable reads on this topic. Those were the warning signs that Mayor Gregor claims to have been blissfully unaware of.

The signals were all there if Robertson decided to open his eyes and view them, instead of going into denial. The police knew they were dealt a bad hand. The lessons of 1994 and the Olympics were ignored. And Vision saw themselves as the heroes of a new fun city where cars no longer matter.

Unlike other cities in the region who sought to hold much more modest family-oriented gatherings (like the one I advocated for here), Vancouver decided to hold Canada's biggest house-wrecking party and invited everyone to come.

Vision can try to spin there way out of this, but the evidence is overwhelming that the buck will stop with Gregor. Those who attempt to defend Robertson are likely to be pulled down into the political quagmire that is clearly unfolding.

- Post by Mike Klassen. Mike is a city council candidate for the Vancouver Non-Partisan Association (NPA). If you're an elected official or candidate seeking a nomination and want to write about urban issues, please send your 450-500 word submission to

Follow Mike on Twitter or on Facebook or visit his website at


Does anybody feel, as I do, that the Pivot Legal Society shackled the Police somewhat because of past incidences?

There is no question in my mind that Vancouver's police dealt with Wednesday's riot in a manner that most Canadians expect... Yes, there was an enormous amount of unforgiveable property damage and looting. But unlike 1994 there are no kids brain-damaged by rubber bullets, and importantly, no fatalities or serious injuries resulting from riot control.

No one I know thinks that saving cameras and cosmetics from a department store would be worth killing someone, nor should there be.

Good job, then?

"Innocents were not rolled over"

They certainly were.
I went out to dinner with a friend on Robson, tried to get to the Granville Bridge via Robson down to Granville, all of a sudden, out of nowhere, there are Riot Squad (with no PIN numbers on their uniforms, wonder why?) pushing down the street. My friend, an older gentleman, was shoved into me---hard. He had not stopped, he simply wasn't moving fast enough for the Military Formation that was moving down the street.

Quite frankly, as journalism goes, how can you possibly say something like that if you were not there observing?

This was an operational failure from the lead-up when the Police were talking about maintaining order using "firm eye contact." On the night of the event, it was a failure for having a large crowd essentially trapped inside those silly blue fences---I have a friend who states that people _were_ trapped and had no way to leave.

It was a sure failure because the police did not approach the riot from more than one angle---I have read that this was actually their "plan", to push the rioters up toward the art gallery, where they were eventually contained. This created great confusion for people trying to use the streets---there was no containment of the riot, only a sort of pushing on it, hoping that it would gradually disband itself.

The VPD failed to maintain order, and not only is this Gregor's fault, it is the fault of the Provincial Cabinet minister who denied additional funding, of Jim Chu, of the City Engineer for not providing appropriate signage on streets, and of the Police Board for not making enough noise about the under-resourcing of the police. But what are they going to do, a day in advance say "hey, if there's a riot, we can't handle it?" Honesty would probably have been better than chemical warfare.

One note: CS Gas is prohibited in international conflicts--Canada could not use CS gas in Afghanistan. Isn't it lovely it's considered OK to use on civilians at home, the majority of whom are confused and worried about what to do? Once there is CS gas in the air, who is going to simply start wandering? There might be _more gas warfare_ going on wherever they wander.

Absolutely shameful behavior on the part of the VPD for failing to maintain order. They must be held accountable for their failure. And that goes from top to bottom---this culture of blaming the Head while leaving the Body without any culpability has got to go. If a military organization fails, it's a collective fault; why is it that for Police failures are always attributed to Management, successes to the whole team?

It is not Gregor's duty to maintain law and order---that is the Police force's duty. Gregor is certainly responsible in part, and so are the city staff who didn't discourage the insanity of such a large gathering, but the blame needs to be spread around all of the Union people who allowed this debacle to occur.

There is plenty of blame to go around---and that is without addressing any sort of institutional, systemic "this is how the Socialist Canadians maintain order on a daily basis, simply on a smaller scale" type stuff. And quite frankly, that's something that needs to be dealt with.

Canadians: you do not live under a democracy---there is no peace, only war. The only luxury you have is that most of the wars are held on such a small scale that you can pretend they are law enforcement. When Chemical Weaponry is deployed against a crowd of largely peaceful civilians, you lose the right to call your "police" anything but Soldiers, using Martial Tactics to restore control of your Nationalist Socialist collective.

Just a NOTE to this article.

LOOK at who's writing this. And take the info in context.

Although this may be true and logical, I'd rather hear it from a non politician.

Of course, you HARDLY hear about the NPA is the Political party that negotiated the OLYMPIC Millenium deal - NOT the VISION party.

However, you hardly hear Susan Anton mentioning this...or the press.

PS. I voted for VISION previously but not likely due to chicken fiasco and growing wheat issue

Well, Brenton, they did in fact use rubber bullets, in the end, such were the visciousnes of the attacks.

Do people want that? No, but when you are grossly outmanned and have nothing else up your sleeve to quell this type of disaster, and are watching others get attacked for trying to stand these morons down, well, sometimes extraordinary measurs are needed. I would have liked to have see some water be used to sweep away some of this crap, and literally cool them off, but it wasn't.

As for fobbing off property damage and looting as an unfortunate side effect of the riots, shame on you. Many of the smaller businesses will not be able to recoup, as insurance does not cover for rioting, so people who spent their whole life building something have now seen it torn to shreds in a matter of minutes. And you write it off as inconsequential.

I wonder what the large businesses and local employers like London Drugs, whose staff were in lockdown for 2hours, trying to get police help would think of your wooly-headed nonsense and the Chief of Police and our Boy Mayor's inabilty to protect jack squat?

Riot. No serious injuries? Realy?! Seriously?! Innocent people, beaten by the mob (not the cops, dear). Massive property damage. Economic and reputational loss and ruin.

Tell me, do you feel safe, Brenton? Would you happy to see futures "incidents" handles in the same way?

What exactly, are you proud of, again, after this fiasco?

No, this is specious nonsense. If they don't have enough police to enforce order without resorting to open warfare, that is, Military Formations and Chemical Weapons, they should adopt a "let the rioters tire themselves out" strategy, rather than steamrolling over innocent civilians, rather than deploying chemical munitions which by their very nature are imprecise.

The police were not "shackled." They were under-staffed and so they had to resort almost immediately to Military tactics, which allow you to do a lot more damage with fewer men. In fact, my view is that they deployed tear gas not against the rioters but in fact to cause the peaceful crowd to disperse. This is Canada in 2011, not a Police State where the police are allowed to injure innocent bystanders because it is expedient.

"I would have liked to have see some water be used to sweep away some of this crap, and literally cool them off, but it wasn't."

Armchair General, maybe you should get a therapist and talk about your fetish for violence towards a crowd that was overwhelmingly composed of confused people who were (a) trying to avoid chemical weapons and (b) confused about where to go due to lack of direction.

SO "Let the rioters tire themselves out" is your sole strategy?

OK, AC. Right in front of your door.

Hey, they could have used you in Vichy, my friend.

So willing to give it all up...

"Confused people". Yes, some no doubt were. Due to lack of resources, planning, logistics, that rotten space...

But I would say that I saw more of the "Absolutely Delighted to be Taking Part in The Carnage" types, AC. Many filled with booze, drugs and that crazy sensibility that they can do ANYTHING!!!

And noone can stop them...

Remind me not to call on you, if am mugged, dear boy. You'd be serving tea and giving solace to the perp...

"SO "Let the rioters tire themselves out" is your sole strategy?

OK, AC. Right in front of your door."

No, if there are enough police to maintain order and specifically target violent people, that's fine. There were not, so they went to Military tactics: gas warfare and formations of troops indiscriminately assaulting people. That is an effective tactic for doing more with less---that is, breaking up more of the riot with less men.

The ideal would have been to have enough Police to maintain order without overtly Military Tactics.

"Hey, they could have used you in Vichy, my friend.

So willing to give it all up..."

Give all what up? The rioters were not targetting dwelling houses, so your fear-based notion that attacking the HBC is the equivalent of attacking a dwelling house is silly.

They would have eventually tired themselves out, dispersed. As I said, more police would have meant that they could have _maintained_ order, rather than LOSING IT then responding Militarily to restore order.

It's very telling that your solution isn't more cops but more excessive, indiscriminate assault of the crowd---water canons, etc. You mean given what they had, right? Ideally, they'd have enough men to maintain order, no? And they _did not_.

"But I would say that I saw more of the "Absolutely Delighted to be Taking Part in The Carnage" types, AC."

Really, which part of this sordid affair did you observe in the flesh? Or do you mean what you saw on Television?

I wish FEST would have the courage to speak up and tell the public what role they played in the planning of the Fan Zones. FEST is notoriously cautious - almost to the point where community organizers throw up their hands and surrender because worst case scenario is always the one that gets planned for or you don't get your permit.

If the DVBIA had planned this event, the City would be all over them like a bad rash rather than making excuses.

Clr. Deal seemed to believe it was all 'in hand'. What made her think that? What sort of assurances did she have or was it blind wishful thinking.

I am personally torn. After watching events live on CTV, the idea of moving the crowd around and let them blow off some steam did 2 thing -especially given the numbers of police on the ground ... it allowed the innocent time to get the heck out of the way, and it took the head off the adrenaline that was obviously present.

Was it the best option - no. Appropriate staffing was the best option. Smaller, dispersed gathering places was the best option, less centralized celebrations was the best option. The police got handed a nightmare before the day even started.

I really cannot buy the notion that they could not see it coming. I watched #riot all day on Twitter and in some cases it was paired with #VPD.

If they did not see it coming, I would sure like to understand where they were all day.

I have been espousing more cops during this event as you will note in previous threads. (Funny, you've just so recently shown up and obviously are not familiar with previous discussions).

But,in lieu of that expanded prsence, are you saying that since the crowd had the upper hand, and since there were not enough cops, they cannot be brought under control by any other means than presence, high-fives and "eye contact"?

Are you suggesting the use of water is the same as that of pepper spray or other in controlling a crowd? And by the way, do you think its only the cops who had pepper spray that night?!

I find that your laisses-faire attitude to the behaviours of the crowd---self induced, as they were clearly not REACTING to the fact that there were too MANY COPS---quite interesting.

Would you have said, given that there were double or triple the police presence that there were then TOO MANY cops? And that the kids were reacting to the perception of a menacing presence? That the cops were inciting the kids and others?

The police are supposed to keep the peace in the city. They are allowed to utilize certain teqniques and tactics---by law and regulation-- in performing this work. I would rather have them do it, than call in the military.

That they were hamstrung from the outset, with instructions and situations from within and through City Hall, is the reason that we had the outcome we did.

So, don't deflect your "military" arguments onto me. Ask yourself why and how this happened in the first place. And who in charge made it that much more extrordinarily difficult for the cops on the ground to be effective and to do the job they are tasked to do.

Gregor should act like a man, take some responsability, and hand in his resignation.

It's the only right thing to do. But don't count on it. So far the coward is only blaming others. Typical.

The Police are a Military Organization with excellent PR---specifically, they are a Mercenary Organization, as they are all paid troops, not voluntaries.

"Are you suggesting the use of water is the same as that of pepper spray or other in controlling a crowd?"

I would call water a chemical weapon. Dihydrogen monoxide. OK, that's a bit silly even for me, but as soon as you're spraying crowds indiscriminately, they have a right to fight back---I would rather avoid giving a Crowd the correct perception that it is being attacked militarily is all, and the only way to do that is to only attack individuals.

"And by the way, do you think its only the cops who had pepper spray that night?!"

I don't think I'd call CS Gas "pepper spray." It is a prohibited chemical weapon in international warfare in part due to this in the preamble of the Prohibitory Covenant:

"Determined for the sake of all mankind, to exclude completely the possibility of the use of chemical weapons, through the implementation of the provisions of this Convention, thereby complementing the obligations assumed under the Geneva Protocol of 1925,

Recognizing the prohibition, embodied in the pertinent agreements and relevant principles of international law, of the use of herbicides as a method of warfare,

Considering that achievements in the field of chemistry should be used exclusively for the benefit of mankind"

So if Canada is determined "for the sake of all mankind to exclude completely the possibility of the use of chemical weapons" because "achievements in the field of chemistry should be used exclusively for the benefit of mankind," regardless of what "law and regulation" you think empowers them to use CS Gas (I suspect it is more a matter of it not being prohibited than it being expressly permitted), I think there is a very good argument to be made that CS gas is simply inappropriate---it is an abuse of Chemistry for one group of men to use Chemistry to control another group of men. Full stop.

"Would you have said, given that there were double or triple the police presence that there were then TOO MANY cops?"

Nope. I don't like militarism, and I'd prefer no cops except volunteer constables who have sufficient lands to be held accountable if they fuck up, then we could see how people react if there isn't a Military Presence, but, you know, I am able to be realistic, even if it is troubling. So, if I have the choice between a few, giving the pretense we don't live in a police state, and enough to drive the message home, I choose enough to drive the message home: we live in a police state, learn to love the bomb, as it were.

"I would rather have them do it, than call in the military."

They are a military. They simple not the Canadian Forces. Military = armed men. Even the ones without guns or tactical equipment carry arms---that cloth armor on their shoulders. They were militarized about 1954 or so, prior to that time they did not all bear arms all of the time.

"Ask yourself why and how this happened in the first place."

Not enough Military to maintain Order.

"And who in charge made it that much more extrordinarily difficult for the cops on the ground to be effective and to do the job they are tasked to do."

Oh, that's our wonderful mayor and his staff who decided to have this event. No question. But it wasn't made "harder" by him---these sorts of events are impossible to pull off without some uncertainty as to what is going to happen.

I'm not a sportsfan---I'd just as soon refrain from having these scale of events, but, you know, then the bad guys have won!

Makes you wonder, Robertson and Vision have $210,000 lying about for green schemes, yet, cannot find the additional dollars for policing the playoff events.

Sorry, not buying it.

The money is there. It is just a matter of where and what it is being directed to.

@ AC:

Hope you aren't a hypocrite who calls the police if something goes wrong.

And I have to tell you, if I were one of the shop keepers in the pathway of stupidty of that night - I would have protected by shop, and my life at all costs.

That is my right.


The problem that you and I would have here is the endless debate over the definition of "police state", in the context of the Canadian experience, versus that of the world---and in the context of the riot, in particular.

You use the term "police state" as a pejorative, and seem to imply that we are comparable to places like Syria, Pinochet's Chile, Cuba, etc.

I guess Canada is a "police state" to someone who chooses to call it and see it like that, and especially where the cops must sometimes be engaged to break up unruly throngs (see Wednesday night) who aren't even engagaed in protesting an issue, but merely out to destroy property and steal merchandise. So, that's a pretty wide net that you are casting there, kiddo.

Harder still for me to understand that while you seem to consider Canada to be "at war" by using police at all, you still think it would have been preferrable and adviseable (as do I) to have staffed the cops up to the kind of levels that might have mitigated some of this sitation.

He uses 'police state' in the context of ....China.

Robertson and Vision forgot the 7-P's"

Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance

What's with our mainstream media? Did any of you watch Global or CTV tonight? Filled with puffy stories about how wonderful Vancouver is after the riot. They even had some lame piece about a glee club singing in front of Canada Place and how this was the "real Vancouver". Oh puulesssse. Get over it and start asking TOUGH questions.

Rather than acting like your feelings are hurt, the media should be grilling the police chief, mayor, city manager, canucks etc...

Don't they realize hundreds of businesses were impacted? Hundreds of kids are going to get arrested? This is serious stuff and they should be doing their investigative reporting, not milk toast kum bay ya stories about how the riots don't reflect who we are.

START ASKING TOUGH QUESTIONS! Find out who is responsible for this and keep our authorities accountable. That's your job. You don't work for tourism Vancouver, so stop with the cheerleading already.

Rant over.

Eric - I cannot agree more with your comments.

Reporting on the warm and fuzzy feelings of the crowd is one thing but chasing after the fact and evidence and following up with the charges and those who hold accountable for this mess is another...

How come the VPD never openly stated how many police offers were on duty Wed night? Was that a difficult question? Someone gotta got issued the paycheck!


One more comment to add...

If there is at least one thing that the MEDIA can do....

Ask the public do the right thing...
If you are one of those rioters, if you are the parents or family of those rioters, or if you happen to know one of the rioters,

do the right thing... and ask the rioters to TURN THEMSELVES IN to the police....

Instead of wasting thousands and thousands of $$$$ and workhours to dig out from the videos/images....let's save the taxpayers' hard-earned $$$$ on investigators' time!! We could have used the $$$ for homelesses, healthcare, education and more....

Yes the potential penalty for those who turned yourself in may be steep... but it's a lesson learned with a life long impact.... hopefully a positive point of change....

Don't wait until your door is knocked!


Just sick Alise Mills on this guy. Find every spare buck in the NPA budget, do it now and treat Alise like a free angel/agent - your pick - from the Canucks wants a job. Make this guy Gregor dread the next time Alise Mills gets within range of a camera or a microphone or a CF-18.

I want that guy to breathe very heavy now until Vancouver Election Day and wake up to a Vancouver Sun that is blonde, stilletto heeled and not happy. Oh and The Province? I want it Police Blue reporting how criminals dream sweet dreams in Gregor's soft bed while in Christy Clark Blue the Premier is building prisons from tent cities NORTH of Prince George. Oh and CKNW? Just play CF-18 noises from 0600 until 2100 Hours and it'd be the same.

It isn't like Alex the Gossip Gallianic F-16 doesn't have the full scoop at where the police force was understaffed, undermined and unprepared. I'm sure Mr. Tsukums could always write a book called... "While Vancouver Dreamed of Lord Stanley... and Slept".

Like I said, tell the NPA to hire that free agent Alise Mills. Do it now. Then watch COPE/Vison councilors & mayoral candidates breathe heavy and pouty.

It's call "fill", Eric, until they get some hard news.

Still, a hard candy coating from the media doesn't make the pill go down any easier, does it?

Here's something they can read that could set them on course, though:

Go to

He seems to have a count of police officers that were deployed.

Your comment is silly in many respects, particularly your own interpretation of the Chemical Weapons Convention. You likely know that CS is not prohibited and that riot control agents are specifically excluded. Thus the notion that the VPD used a banned substance exists only in your mind. I notice you posted in response to a comment critical of Pivot. I suspect given the influence of rising stars in Vancouver's left like David Eby ( former Pivot Director)who spent the good part of the Olympics with his squad of observers filming cops at protest events and otherwise bleating on about a police state, that Gregor figured he could have a street party and do it without the fallout from Eby and his ilk about over policing. T

T.A.T. - v interesting article... thks 4 sharing...

Thanks, Skippy. I was going to look it up, but have been too busy today.

By the way, as you may recall, Pivot "observers" were conspicuous by their absense during the short-lived Oly riot---which was quickly managed by--the police.

Tacit, if not specific support, of the black blockheads, perhaps? How was it that that was the one event those fervent supporters of civil liberties managed to miss?

Now Eby is urging people with pics of the riot not to post them on social media sites (no disagreement there), but to send them directly to the cops. God, he is becoming, like, SO mainstream. Guess he wants to run for something...

Funny old world.

One more interesting perspective before I call it a night:

We Are All Canuckleheads?

Mayor of Boston a lttile more transparent that Robertson on police numbers. Wasn't trasparency of Robertson's main campaign issue? I guess he fanned on that too.

Did any of you watch Global or CTV tonight? Filled with puffy stories about how wonderful Vancouver is after the riot. They even had some lame piece about a glee club singing in front of Canada Place and how this was the "real Vancouver". Oh puulesssse. Get over it and start asking TOUGH questions.

I have to agree. I went by the Bay over the weekend and the area looks like a kindergarten class with notes and drawings on the wood panels and paper hanging from strings string across where the broken windows were.

As much as these people's heart is probably in the right place we need someone to kick some butt and get some answers as to who dropped the ball and why they didnt even look at the recommendations from the last riot. The handling of the situation by civic officials and top cops stinks and heads should roll.

Dear Coward,

Please be advised that another title each and every Mayor of Vancouver assumes is that of "Chief Constable". As such he, and next year she for the 1st time, is Chair of the Police Board. And, what was it President Truman said?

And, if the Mayor and VV truly believed in the democratic process, why didn't they bring their plans to Council for discussion? Councillor Anton perhaps wanted to ask about what their plans were, how any officers doing what, what were the contingency plans, was it wise to hype this event as much as it was being hyped, what money was being spent where and why, are there other funding agencies, etc?

This Mayor has once again demonstrated for all to see:

1) a lack of competence and poor judgement;
2) a disregard of the democratic process and accountability;
3) 1st priority is good news and fun stuff, let's not get bogged down in unimportant details....
4) oops, Plan 'A' didn't work, and no Plan 'B' or 'C', hey, it's spin time, let's go sign the plywood and have some pancakes... They make really good photo-ops!

It seems that the mainstream media is slowly getting the Vision on how to write a story.

Robertson and the smug Vision crew completely misjudged the situation, preferring to imagine, along with other left-wingers, that the policing for the Olympics was out of proportion. The Olympics are an international event, this hockey game was not, but a far more substantial police presence and plan was obviously needed.

Gregor Robertson directs the police through his instructions to the Chief. Gregor Robertson has to take responsibility for this disaster.

"though the account of the so-called "kiss" photo suggests that the girl on the ground got clipped by a police shield."

These two idiots have hired an agent andare now going on TV saying they were roughly handled by the police - like it was the police's fault they stayed around to watch a riot, that they were in the middle of the street in front of a fully equipped riot squad. The darkness indicates the picture was taken well into the evening, well after the rioting started

Any normal person with more than two functioning brain cells would have gotten as far away as possible from the mob, like many, many did.

These two morons chose to hang around end get a little riot vibe and now they want to say the police are at fault because she got knocked over.

Another two-brained cell idiots who wants to live Consequence Free.

Spare me, please.

I think the dad of the boy has something to do with it. He was interviewed (in Austrailia) and mentioned calls were coming in - from New York and LA talk shows - and 'what a gentleman' his son was to comfort the girl.

No doubt they will milk it for all it's worth.

But we have the media to thank for over hyping that photo as well.

I look at it and see two kids rutting around on the ground. Very classy.

Evidentially, others see something else - something I don't get.

Can you imagine how much bragging Gregor wold be doing about this is it would have been successful?

He'd be all over radio & TV saying how right he was, how it was his idea, he'd be taking the credit . . .

He's a very shallow person, not able to man-up when he should.

Reminds me of Obama and the how he is handling the US economy.

Does Gregor play a lot of golf too?

Mike, I disagree with you about almost everything you post. But not this.

The riot was perfectly predictable and follwed the pattern of sports riots everywhere throughout history: young men + high stakes sports games + alcohol + crowded urban area + inadequate police presence = riot.

The final Stanley Cup playoff game was not the Olympics. There was no entertainment, the crowds were larger, younger,and there were far, far less police and security measures.

Add to all this the hubristic idea that Vancouverites are somehow nicer, more well-behaved or more civilized than sports fans in any other city in the world (be it London, L.A., or Lima, where in 1964 318 people were killed in a football riot) and disaster was bound to occur.

We created the perfect environment for mayhem, and are now blaming "thugs" and "hooligans." Of course any individuals with evidence against them should be held accountable for their actions, but so should those in authority who chose to ignore not only our own history, but also the experience and wisdom of other large cities, like Boston, whose mayor and police chief were smart enough to prohibit public gatherings of any kind on game night.

Actually it belongs to both Mayor Gregor Moonbeam and police Chief Jim Chu. Chu's plan and general approach to crowd control was Alice in Wonderland in Vancouver. Totally hands off and nicey nicey to a band of marauders.
The Mayor and Chief need to be replaced

It's become pretty clear now that Robertson, Ballem, Chu, Deal, Reimer and co. built a game 7 strategy around there not being a riot.

The contingency plans were not effective enough to deal with a quick escalation.

I can't fathom how an excuse of "We didn't think this would happen" is good enough.

The mayor had time to make a friendly bet with the mayor of Boston. Did they not think to also discuss the very different strategies on how to manage a win/loss? Hopefully Vancouver was not arrogant enough to tell Boston that 'we don't need to ban public gatherings in the downtown because we are grown ups'.

Did nobody see the very different approaches as a red flag?

100,000 persons gathering in the downtown core during the Olympics = 5,000 police. Family events, seniors, not much by the way of drinking....

100,000 persons invited to gather in the downtown core during hockey playoffs = 500 police. Average age group 18-25, priamrily male, much drinking.

No recipe for disaster there.

"I can't fathom how an excuse of "We didn't think this would happen" is good enough."

It isn't. But the other explanations are just as bad - "we thought it could happen but just hoped for the best" or "we thought it could happen but our plan to deal with it was inadequate." Anyway you slice it, someone in a leadership position has to be held accountable even if it costs them their job.

Makes me wonder why we waste time and money on earthquake preparedness drills. Good thing it really isn't going to happen.

Interesting point about earthquake preparedness Bill...

Did we ever see a report from those three city employees sent to Christchurch for a month to study what happened there?

Can anyone confirm in the Riot/crowd control vehicle that they paraded in September was actually witnessed being used during this incident?

It would really be a "riot" if it was sitting in a parking lot at the station.

Maybe Heather Deal should take her head out of the lobster feast and give it a shake. She was still taking credit for giving it a "good try" with respect to this riot, I mean, fun zone, less than 24 hours after it started.

Think about this, how many VPD officers do we think we have? And how many can we put on the streets at the same time for one particular event? 600? Maybe 800. Is that going to be able to deal with 100,000, or 120,000 "cranky" people as Deal put it? Absolutely not!! Is she out of her mind? Or was she still suffering from the lobster food coma? Or jetlag from her trip to the Maritimes? For them to try to walk away from this is just criminal!

I wonder how this lot get to sleep at night....

Do you have any idea who Jim Chu's boss is? Yeah, that's right, Gregor Robertson. How can VPD send members out if the City isn't willing to pay them? Would you go to work (and risk your life) for free? VPD had members of other police agencies, who were already on duty, on standby to assist "if" there was a riot because they would not have to pay outside agencies (i.e. RCMP and Abbotsford Police) overtime because their members were already on duty. That's not to say the Chief isn't somewhat accountable for the poor planning, but leave the rest of the department out of it.

I agree that Robertson, Ballem, Deal, Reimer, and those high ranking city staff in Engineering and Special Events need to take responsibility of this riot and be judged, but I disagree that Chu has to go. He had asked for more resources, but was denied by the aforementioned. How was he supposed to pull a rabbit out of the hat and create a miracle? It would be a shame if he has to take the fall for these idiot morons running the City. I find it laughable that Robertson said, "If these young people do get their way they'll destroy Canada". I say that if we let him have his way, he'll destroy Vancouver. Wait, he already did that.

Oh, and the media.... Should I start a non-profit group and begin to colelct donation for the defence fund for those who stepped forward and turned themselves to the police? Come on, the stories over this weekend makes me more ashamed of the people around me than the fact that they were part of the riot! They kids didn't come forward because they felt that they had to. They turned themselves in because they got caught, by the cameras. What is the message we are trying to send? You can commit a crime, but as long as you come out and turn yourself in, you will get a soft ride and a pat on the back? Cry me a river!! Justice is supposed to be blind. Doesn't matter whehter his dad was a Dr. or a labourer, he still tried to burn down a police cruiser. What he, and everyone else who participated in this riot, is swift justice, and being held accountable to the damage they have caused. No exception.

Wow (jaw drop).....

City manager did not read 1994 riot report
Janet Brown | Email news tips to Janet

Some rather surprising news from Vancouver City Hall in the wake of last week's riot.
The city manager Penny Ballem says she did not read the report written following the 1994 riot.

"Had you yourself read that Whitelaw Report prior to last week's riot? No I had not myself."

Why not?

"If I had to read every single report that was behind a lot of business we do I would never see the light of day.'

Ballem also says a review of what unfolded Wednesday night will be announced shortly.

Apparently Heather Deal justify all things and acquits herself by saying the whole council voted on the event budget.... then the obvious question would be: Did they plan on having 100,000 people there to begin with and therefore budgeted for it?

The answer - I think not. The Georgia site was only brought online when they packed the Granville Street site after the first 2 games of the Finals.

The sequence of events here is simple, egotistical Mayor and his Vision colleagues decided they want a party, but without the necessary planning and budget it place. They decided to give it the college "try", and got a riot instead. I wonder how many downtown businesses are lining up their lawyers to sue the City. I would if I was one of them. And I'd ask the lawyer to explore ways to hold Robertson, Deal, Reimer, Ballem, and the rest of them personally liable. Of course, they are probably insured, by a policy paid by taxes no less. What an irony!?!

Interesting how Ms. Ballem has time to micro manage and screen reports of staff on a regular basis, but in this instance-

"If I had to read every single report that was behind a lot of business we do I would never see the light of day."

Given the dollars involved and the potential risks, you would think that report would have made it to the top of the pile.

There is always an executive summary she could look at (4-5 pages max?) or better yet, the guys phone number was likely on the document - call him.

Pretty lame.

I usually look at CityCaucus to see what the right-wing loonies are saying and Tyee to see what the loony lefties are saying. Oddly, on the topic of the riot, they are pretty much saying the same thing!
Check out


At the very least, Ms Ballem should have read the recommendations and asked staff to indicate if any were not going to be implemented and why.

Penny and Greg only understand PowerPoint.

Reading is so Twentieth Century.

Kotylak is seventeen=free pass anyway.

Host of afternoon show on CKNW is asking for Penny Ballem & Mayor Moonbeam's resignation. Finally someone is listening to the public mood. Bruce Allen also did a great reality check today and also called for Robertosn to step down. Will he listen? No.

Anyone open to starting a facebook page asking for Gregor to step down?

The more times I read Heather's quote from June 15 the more pathetic it becomes.

I am gobsmacked that Gregor and Penny are both admitting they did not read the report that is referenced dozens of times in the City Council database. Arrogance or incompetence - take your pick.

Still looking for the actual report- if anyone can point me there. I want to see for myself how long the executive summary is.

Based on everything I've heard and seen today, the mayor's teflon coating looks like it has a crack in it. Will he actually wear an issue? Or will he call a news conference, have a tearful apology, and ask for forgiveness. NOT

Wow, what a surprise. Mike thew some bait in the shark tank and everyone's all frothy chomping it up! The only thing that surprises me is he waited this long to do it, as that was the clear goal even while it was happening - bending and twisting this for partisan political gain of the sort you've been plotting ever since your party was thrown out of power 3 years ago.

This is a really tough issue. Why it happened cuts to the very core of the kind of society we have, the kinds of kids we raise, and the civic institutions that create our sense of shared experience and how we need them to respond in times of crisis. There are no easy answers, this not a black and white issue, as nothing really is. Let's try and be a little thoughtful and curious about what happened and why. The easiest thing for human nature is to pick a scapegoat and rub them raw. Chucking them out and thinking that solves the core issue. Have you noticed that never works? We can do better than that my friends.

Mike you're a joke.

Get a real platform and some real ideas.

Contribute something new, don't just tow the grumpy clam Anton attitude around with you.

Tried to brief and hopefully makes sense.
A cursory review of what is currently available form the COV web site on Police staffing/budget data form VDP Boar reports and reports to council all with Robertson present;
1) March 11/2011 – VPD Police Board meeting with Robertson present as Chair of the Board. The Stanley Cup Play-offs staffing report was reviewed at an in camera session.
2) March 22/2011 – Report to City Council from Chief Chu – cost for play-offs by round; Round 1=$33K, Round2=43K, Round3= $145k,Round4=$427k,Total=$648k. The report indicates these are for spontaneous gatherings, not for organized Fan Site gatherings and that these are minimums subject for to review.
3) The April 2010 Stanley Cup Play-offs VDP staffing report is on-line with full detail on the number of officers by function (CCU/Bike Squad etc), overtime rate , length of OT shift etc.
4) Similarities between the 2010 and 2011 report are as follows; both staff to spontaneous celebrations not pre planned fan sites; both refer to the 1994 Whitehall report; both consider costs from Edmonton ($ Calgary ($2.4 mil); in estimating costs both assume officers providing protection work 5 hour shifts at double time overtime.
5) Differences between 2010 and 2011 reports; the 2011 report states in referring to the 1994 riot “there was a criminal element present bent on taking advantage of the situation to engage criminal activities including looting”. This additional risk element is mentioned in the 2011 report but not 2010. No mention of more dollars to mitigate this newly identified risk. As well, the impact of social media is considered a risk factor given recent experience to “organize large impromptu gatherings”. Again a second additional risk factor in the 2011 VPD staffing report with no additional dollars to mitigate this risk. All while Robertson, both Vancouver’s CEO and Chair of the VPD board is present.
6) What of the difference between the 2010 and 2011 Stanley Cup staffing Budgets? Total in 2010 was $968K while total in 2011 was $648K. In the finals (round4), the budgeted cost in 2010 was $645k reduced to $427K in 2011 despite two new risk factor identified above.
7) The net impact. Each year’s report is based on a 5 hour overtime shift at a double time rate. I have simplified using the VPD Board 2010 rate of approx $76.00 per hour (at 5 hours) or $380 per officer. Based on the budget reduction of $218k ( 2010 v 2011) and $380 per officer equates to 573 fewer police officers working round 4 in 2011 versus 2010.

"Chucking them out and thinking that solves the core issue."

But it just feels sooooo good!

Skippy, thank you for taking time to pick apart the math.

Well it looks like Vision Vancouver party members finally showed up. I wonder if this thread was appearing too high in the search engines for "Gregor Robertson".

$600,000+ to (inadequately) police a private enterprise event like the Canucks? How many more thousands in equipment rental and road closures?

Nobody voted for that.


If the core issue is incompetence then 'chucking them out' clearly does solve the problem. It's generally a good idea anyway, which is why many jurisdictions have term limits, as it reminds our leaders that they lead only by consent.

Also, chaps, in my opinion by being dismissive toward the readers and commenters here you don't make yourselves look clever, just small.

The Thought of The Day

'Jason the boohoo dude, is M(B)ogus.'

David, as I was 'crafting' the above Thought, and was about to respond to your previous post re...

'Penny and Greg only understand PowerPoint. Reading is so Twentieth Century.'

with this (posted earlier on Fabula):

'Funny thing, though.
I was just told, as I was writing this, that a power Point Presentation is under way at City Hall, recited by Penny Ballem and titled…

‘Gregor’s Rather Lovely Vancouver Riot’

… and it starts like this:

…and I suppose it ends like this:

……………………. /´¯/)
………………….,/¯ ..//
…………………/… ./ /
…………./´¯/’…’/´¯/ ¯`·¸
………./’/…/…./…/ …./¨¯\
……..(‘(…´(..´…… ,~/’…’)
………\…………… ..\/…./
……….”…\……… . _.·´
…………\………… ..(
…………..\………. …\
VANCOUVER!' beat me to the punch with your 'boojasondude' LMAO!

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

They turned themselves in because they got caught, by the cameras. What is the message we are trying to send? You can commit a crime, but as long as you come out and turn yourself in, you will get a soft ride and a pat on the back? Cry me a river!!


They all should get minimum 10 days in jail and a criminal record so that they cannot travel that easily. Of course the minors will get off because of their age and the others will have such gut wrenching story that the judges will be bawling their eyes out and let them off.

Wait a minute..... wasnt Harper changing some of these rules? Maybe some of these charges should be delayed for the new rules to take effect.

Doing some quick math.

If indeed there were only 300 VPD at the riot (including the ones in the rink), there were 100,000 people in the streets and only 5% of the people troublemakers that means each cop was expected to control 16 out of control troublemakers.

Totally impossible and asking the cops to do way too much.

Heads must roll.

As I read your hysterical post Glissando.

I look to the side bar and what do I see.

@mogusmoves @cknw @mayorgregor I think he's doing a very good job of that all on his own. Doesn't need help from us on this one about 1 hour ago · reply · retweet · favorite

Thanks, Skippy.

There is more due diligence here than in any report to council!

The Thought of The Mid-Evening.

(with apologies to Glissy ;-)

To All Politicians:

If you live by (and try to take credit for) the spectacle, you will die by the spectacle (when it all goes horribly wrong).

Vancouver politicians: grow up! Forget the parties! Forget the chickens!

Look after our city!

I understand the big screens came in from the states?

I saw one TV clip at the end of the game that showed people throwing stuff at one screen resulting in flashes and part of the screen appearing to blow up.

I assume the city has to pay for that repair as well?

This up on CKNW;

CKNW Vancouver (AM 980)
Marcella Bernardo | Email news tips to Marcella

Vancouver's mayor says he didn't read the report commissioned after the 1994 Stanley Cup riots, but Gregor Robertson insists he didn't need to because many of the reccomendations were implemented years and years ago and if any mistakes have been made we'll definitely be seeing those in the review.

Robertson is also dismissing claims he denied police requests for additional resources, insisting everything Chief Jim Chu asked for was granted by city hall.

On Global this morning:

London Drugs and ICBC will be moving ahead with civil lawsuits against those that looted, caused damage and are identified - in order to help recover their losses.

As a frothy chomping 'friend' I hereby nominate Jason Mogus for the mixed metaphor prize of the week.

Chucking out a rubbed raw scapegoat might be the easiest thing for human nature but to conceive of such a creature is another matter altogether. There is no easy answer as to whether this poor animal, any colour except black and white, was the shark tank bait, whether it ever scored a goal, or why we should be thoughtful and curious but not ask hard questions. However enough of the "negative energy", in the words of Org Culture Change Agent Gregor, let us give yogic cycling silent praise where it is due.

Also, Mike, I'm sure we all hope that your bending and twisting and plotting for the last three years hasn't resulted in any permanent injury.

Just heard the NDP's Cathy Corrigan on the radio this morning and you could tell as hard it's is to have anyone else wearing this riot other than Robertson and friends she gave it a noble try before getting a bit of a rebuttal by Good. She tried to connect the riot with the Provincial governments sheriff's funding issue but quickly gave it when it was obvious the spin wouldnt work.

All I can say judging from her comments thank goodness the NDP is not in power as Robertson would definitely get a pass from his sisters and brothers in the NDP.

@ Jason Mogul:

Remind us again - just how much money did your company, communicopia, donate to Robertson and Vision Vancouver?

$16,530 to Vision Vancouver
$1,100 to Gregor Robertson
$250 to Vision Vancouver

and $100 out of your own pocket to Vision Vancouver

For a total of $17,980

Buisness must be good Jason. According to the records, and removing all the union donations, you were in the top 10 or so as far as $$ amount.

2008 was not a good year for many people and many businesses - that economic downturn thing.

This is the disgrace of this issue.

It's political posturing,as usual, when people's lives and property were on the line.

A pox on all your houses!

It is a miracle that nobody died.
I couldn't watch the night of the riots, I was so upset at the idea that people might die.

Still makes me shudder.

So the city is moving forward with an independent review, but the mandate of the review does not include attributing blame to anyone.

So we're basically spending money to produce a report that gives recommendations that should be followed prior to the next riot. Given that apparently no one read, or followed, the report produced after the '94 riot, why do we think this will be different?

Estimates peg the loss in revenue to Vancouver in the neighborhood of $1 billion dollars as a result of this international "black eye". Amazing how none of our elected officials will take any blame for this loss.

This mayor is willing to take all glory for all investments made in Vancouver, but then takes zero responsibility when, on his watch, the city loses a billion dollars....unbelievable.

'the report produced after the '94 riot, why do we think this will be different? '

Maybe somebody will read it....

@ John:

I think Camille Cacino's parents have wasted money on her education and the teachers have wasted their time in attempts for her to learn anything. (I am sure the UBC faculty is damn happ she praded their reputation into her mess) And let's face it, the only reason she turned herself in was because she got caught.

The blog she was running was taken down due to the number of 'hate' posts she received.

This was on CKNW earlier today:

Camille Cacnio was caught smiling on-tape after stealing a pair of men's pants.

Camille then posted a long-winded apology on her blog, some of which appeared to show Cacnio trying to rationalize what she had done. That sparked a flurry of hate messages, and even threats from posters.

Her mother Alice says she's not condoning her daughter's actions, but says the online reaction has gone way too far, "She's being crucified for what she did. It's too much already and they want to ruin her career, they want to ruin her life."

The blog post has now been greatly shortened, with only the apology remaining.

Cacnio adds Camille has also turned herself into police.

From the Camille Cacnio "apology" post:

"Here’s another thing that bothers me: why is everybody so surprised that a female partook in the riot? What is with this attitude that females are incapable of doing what men can do? Maybe it takes an event like this to show you misogynists that woman are fully capable of anything you can do."

Wow. just wow.

I trust CityCaucus will right the record re: Point #4 soon, but in case they don't, here you go:

VPD Chief Jim Chu:

With just a few exceptions, all of the former BC Police Commission’s recommendations have been followed by the VPD. The members of the Public Safety Unit/Crowd Control Unit will especially know that their superb training, equipment, and leadership is a reflection of not only the recommendations in the report, but also the many advancements in crowd control unit training that have occurred since 1994.

The recommendations from the 1994 report that were not implemented are those that impose conditions on the news media and where they can place their cameras. Earlier in the hockey series, we did request some TV crews to move from Granville Street and we were met with strong disagreement.

So who is Mr. Whitelaw and why is he saying that we didn’t follow his 1994 recommendations?

As a sergeant on the frontline in the 1994 riot, I was interviewed extensively by the Police Commission in 1994 and I don’t remember Mr. Whitelaw. Other VPD members who were involved with the reviews in 1994 also do not remember him.

I confirmed yesterday that Mr. Whitelaw did not write the 1994 report, and that he has misrepresented to the news media his involvement with the BC Police Commission. This was confirmed yesterday when I talked to the former Chair of the BC Police Commission, Mr. David Edgar. I also have talked to others who were involved in writing the final report.

I was given a copy of an early report that I was told Whitelaw did help write. It was immediately discarded by the BC Police Commission in 1994. I was also told that because of the inadequacy of Mr. Whitelaw’s work, new investigators were brought in and a completely new report was written without any use of this first inadequate report.

Many of Mr. Whitelaw’s recommendations in his discarded report were rejected as unrealistic, and recommended a police reaction disproportionate to the offence being committed. For example, can you imagine the public outcry if we had zero-tolerance on “horn honking”, and instead of discretion on a “liquor pour-out”, we gave every single person a Violation Ticket, not to mention the impact on our effectiveness in interdicting liquor.

On the internet, there are many news pictures of Mr. Whitelaw holding the final 1994 BC Police Commission report. It is unfortunate reporters were misled and didn’t test the veracity of Mr. Whitelaw’s statements which at best appear to be incorrect or at worse, misleading and false. Mr. Whitelaw lives and works in Ottawa. He has never met with me or any senior staff to learn what we have done in the 17 years since the 1994 riot. I hope the reporters who gave him prominence when he criticized the VPD will give equal prominence to the real facts.

Mr. Whitelaw has definitely raised his personal profile and received a lot of attention at our expense. I found out yesterday that Mr. Whitelaw did offer his services to the VPD as a consultant on June 1st but we did not accept his offer. Shortly after, he appears to have contacted the Vancouver Sun with his opinions and an article warning of a riot appeared on June 4th. One recent article I read has him assisting the Montreal and Calgary Police with their playoff runs. I talked to the Chiefs in both Calgary and Montreal. Both of these agencies have never had any relationship with Mr. Whitelaw nor have these police agencies heard of him.

He did engage in some consulting work for the Ottawa Police. I talked to a senior Ottawa police officer and in 2007 when the Ottawa Senators were in the semi-finals, they experienced a problem incident with a large crowd. Mr. Whitelaw made some media comments about his 1994 expertise so they brought him in to “strategically” listen to him. Everything Whitelaw said the Ottawa Police should do, they were already doing so the advice he offered was not helpful; he nevertheless did invoice the Ottawa Police for his services. I am concerned that he could engage in similar pressure-marketing behavior with another police agency facing a crowd management issue.

Dear Angry Taxpayer:

My post you responded to was entirely quoted from the piece written by Mr. Klassen. Please direct your anger at him if you feel so inclined.

All those parents who have their kids caught on tape rioting in Vancouver on the 15th need to come to the reality that they failed as parents, and that their kids do not deserve any sympathy, let alone any leniency in the eye of the law and the blind/swift justice they so fully deserve. None of this "daddy and mommy are proud of you because you stood up and turned yourself in...", instead, you should be telling them how ashamed of them you are and of yourselves for bringing up this generation of entitlement. They have been given everything and now they expect to get a soft landing? Give me a break already.

And the media, spend less time deifying these criminals for "turning themselves in", they were CAUGHT!!! And spend more time telling the stories of the real heroes, the police, the EHS, the volunteers, the bystanders who stepped in between businesses and these criminals. And tell the heartbreaking stories of those who have lost their livelihoods or lifetime's work in their businesses.

You spend so much time tailing against the system for going easy on criminals and now you are championing these deadbeats?

The Thought of The Day

'It's OK. You can destroy someone's life and property as long as you stay off the wheat patch.'

Yeah, it sounds about right, like the Solomon & Robertson & Ballem mantra experimented in the city of Vancouver by the Vision Hollyhockers, in the past almost three(my God it was that long!?) years.

You can destroy someone's life and property as long as you are $loaded$, and comfortable with it, and if it doesn't affect your personal space or environment... much, allowing you a clean conscience and a lower carbon foot print,it doesn't really matter if you are a Water Flock 'Athlete' from the burbs, a UBC 'Student' bitch, a Karate Kid III, what matters is that you feeeeel gooood...and don't give a shit about anybody else but yourselves and your tiny, little Twitter-IPhone-Facebook world in which you reside.

Look, when I see a 'water ball splashing' idiot, playing with... fire; when I see a self absorbed global warming advocate 'woman' stealing a pair of ... man's pants; when I see a "satellite kid" smashing to bits a window of the bank which gave his parents the loan to buy their son...his first Baby BMW, you may think something is wrong. Right?
Well, no.

According to the Mayor's PR machine and with the MSM 'all's quiet on the western front' we are a bunch of fun loving, quiet individuals affected by the Moon's dark side, serving an early Hudson Bay sponsored breakfast by the... Apology Wall...BTW,"Apology Wall" ? What the F**k is with that?

Fifty years ago, if a deal like this went wrong, I dunno paisano, it would end up with pleas of forgiveness 'Per favore notta da face, I am a makin' a livin' with a dis face'... today is more like 'Pleaseee, not the treees, I'm making a living with those treees...or chicken coops, or bee hives, or wheat fields, or da bikes...'.

Ezra Levant presented a very strong case for the ... prosecution team. Thank god none of them was caught with unpaid fare on the sky-train that day, or you would be looking now at potential Vision Mayoral material right there...if you catch my drift.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

From the Camille Cacnio "apology" post:

"Here’s another thing that bothers me: why is everybody so surprised that a female partook in the riot? What is with this attitude that females are incapable of doing what men can do? Maybe it takes an event like this to show you misogynists that woman are fully capable of anything you can do."

I have to agree. These gems that are coming out our schools nowadays need a reality check. Quotes like this might also be a product of the level of some of the teachers we have in the school system.

This person needs to see as much repercussions as possible for this. I dont care if it goes on for a year or 10 years they need to learn.

Comments like this are feminism gone wild (some have kidded femininazis)who are saying "us gals can riot just as good as the guys ....... let me show you"

Even in my most strident 60's activism stage I could not have imagined rioting and destroying property, terrifying people with violence.

I wanted violence to end.

Still do but I can't help wonder if the constant need of stimulation (Twitter, cellphones,Facebook) has taken away the ability to connect with people face to face.

I watched some of the riot coverage and it reminded me of parallel play among little children.
They're playing side by side but not with each other.
In their own world.

Sending the images to their virtual friends.

I am amazed how the VPD police chief could defend the latest riot and his spins on resource deployment.On Sunday afternoon and three days after the riot, I observed three of our city finest, parked their public funded motorcycles near the ubc endownment highway and ticketed the sunday drivers coming off the 80km speed highway to the border of vancouver 50km city limit. Kudo to the chief that you have such a fantastic deployment strategy to nail these dangerous drivers. The families, couples with children speeding off in an almost deserted highway. Indeed this is a safe bet these speeders unlikely will set their motorcycles on fire. I observed with sadness that I could not recall or to locate one of these macho terminators speed trap at any weekends after midnights around Granville street corridor when all the drunks sped out of the downtown core thinking they were missing a role call in the Datona 500. Wonderful work Chief so carry on, the UBC endownment highway will never be safe without your troop's presence

The Thought of The Day

"The agreed upon way to control the human race is to try to completely wipe out one generation while stupefying the next. Twitter and Facebook are only tools that reach further and faster towards this goal. And it is happening."

Thank God Darwinism works, otherwise we would think the world of the twitting Robertson, Dale, Jang and Reimer.

chris (one of many),

"Still do but I can't help wonder if the constant need of stimulation (Twitter, cellphones,Facebook) has taken away the ability to connect with people face to face."

...yeah, that... and pure human this:

...herd mentality, and a complete lack of understanding of what is being done to them.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

once we get over our sense of violation and disappointment, it will be very interesting to start looking at the dynamics of the crowd from a human interaction perspective.

People were more interested in taking pictures than engaging in the situation- one way or another. The riot was not anger, it was entertainment. Was it one giant video game?

I wonder if they will use scenes from the riots to sell smart phones... don't leave home without it???

@ Brenton

Well, that will prove quite the get out of jail card for Chu, Robertson and friends, if proven true, even though it wouldn't actually change anything of substance.

However it might be wise to wait for full details to come out as, in the immortal words of G W Bush,

"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again."

I love this quote from Cacino's mother:

"She's being crucified for what she did. It's too much already and they want to ruin her career, they want to ruin her life."


I wonder if mommy dearest realizes that her darling daughter has managed this all by herself.

Camille had made her own train wreck.

I just lost a lot of respect for Jim Chu. Whether or not Whitelaw wrote the report is a sideshow, a distraction. Explain to us Chief Chu why your plan was so badly flawed? Explain to us Mayor Robertson how you could be so blinkered as to think human nature had changed since 1994. Explain to us how commonsense was sacrificed in a desperate attempt not to be labelled "no fun city'. Now we've justly been labelled Riot City. I'll take the "no fun" moniker over that any day.

Anyone read Vancouver Courier's story today? Gregor blames BC Liberals for the riot, then takes "some responsibility" for what happened.

God does this guy not get it? He is making things worse by the day! I hope his handlers don't hide him away. The best thing that can happen is he keeps talking to the media.

Vancouver Courier -

"Mayor Gregor Robertson says he accepts some responsibility for allowing the Stanley Cup riot to occur June 15 downtown but “ultimate responsibility” lies with lawbreakers.

Robertson said responsibility should be shared with the Vancouver Police Department and the provincial government—“key partners in the celebration and in keeping our streets safe.”

Oh yeah baby! Time to blame Christy Clark and the liberals. Now this is starting to get fun.

Chu slinging mud at Whitelaw. Gregor blaming the province. This is all getting really nasty fast.

The Thought of The Day

‘They did it! Goddammit, this time they did it. I tell you, people, they got to me with this one. I’ve tried to look away,and I couldn’t, not this time, not after they stole from one of my favorite acts. You don’t understand people… they stole from The Three Stooges! ‘

Penny Ballem, Jimmy Chu and Gregor Robertson a.k.a Operators 12, 14 and 15 a.k.a. Lieutenant Duck, Captain Dodge, and Major Hide.

Want to know what happened to Operator 13?
“He swam across the English Bay and died of Vision poisoning.
Nyuk nyuk nyuk!!”

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.


It's the tent!

After the great fire of Vancouver, the City built itself from a tent!

Can we rebuild Vancouver by demanding all authorities pay attention to those of us who love this City?

It's time!

In case you haven't read it, here's the report from 1994.

The recommendations begin on Page 72. I left downtown just before the game and you could see there were a lot of drunk people and few police from as early as 1:30 PM.

By my count, these are the recommendations that appear not to have been addressed or were addressed inadequately by the City:

R1, R2, R3
R5, R7, R8
R9, R11, R12
R13, R14, R15,
R16, likely R17,
R23 (likely issued, but not deployed until hours later),
R31 & 32.

Gregor-Vision: The Two Huge TVs (practically a network) that enticed huge crowds to watch the Stanley Cup Final in one small area of downtown Vancouver.

Gregor-Vision: The Foresight of the Mayor to know that attracting 100,000 people into a confined space would be a good idea.

Gregor-Vision: The Foresight of the Mayor to know that the Canucks would win the Stanley Cup and he could ride their coattails to victory in November.

Gregor-Vision: The Foresight of the Mayor that blaming a few “anarchists” will successfully deflect public scrutiny away from his original visionary policies.

Gregor-Vision: The Mayor/Political Party that created the conditions for mayhem to flourish.

Whoa, baby!
I shat my pants from laughter.
How on earth did you find that video clip? It's like out of an "one on one" movie.
Penny Ballem - Lieutenant Duck
Jimmy Chu - Captain Dodge
Gregor Robertson - Major Hide (boy oh boy, isn't he a major hide)
Glissando Remmy, The Master of Satire we salute you!

I didn`t realize it was satire.... I thought Glissando had a hidden camera placed at City Hall...

But nobody did die.
More pedestrians die in Vancouver every year than have been killed by the 1994 and 2011 riots combined.

Where is the indignation from the shopkeepers, from the "nice people"?
Oh, right, they don't shop at pedestrians, they shop at HBC.

Shows just what they value---corporations over people.

"I think Camille Cacino's parents have wasted money on her education and the teachers have wasted their time in attempts for her to learn anything."

Why do you think that? She has admitted her culpability, which shows that she is an honest person, and in return she was given threats---now, are you going to try to say with a straight face that threats to HUMAN BEINGS are better than taking a bit of clothing out of a corporate warehouse?

"Wonderful work Chief so carry on, the UBC endownment highway will never be safe without your troop's presence"

You know that more pedestrians are killed by cars every year than anyone is by riots, right?

Corporations before people, right?

That Original Cansino "Apology", in Full.

Let's just say that another, far more sanitized version showed up a few hours later, after this one caused just a wee bit of outrage.

Can you spell "moral relativism", AC?

Apology? I think not. Just an incredible paeon to the twisted logic(?) of the self-entitled, self-absorbed ego driven "reality wannabe" stars that seem to comprise a lot of these apologies.

The Thought of The Looter Girl

'Almost ten minutes of my life wasted on this Camille Cuntcino letter of apology, published in the Vancouver Sun, where else, crap on crap, LOL.'

A letter that sounds more like an official request from the corporations that this lowlife has come in touch with, something to act as a 'release form' saying that they (the corporate entities) have nothing to do with CC's actions. Of course they don't and still... unbelievable.

A letter that in my honest opinion is the best example of bullshit I never wrote. Why do I say that? Because of the last paragraph that she 'allegedly' wrote on her own:

'To those who know me and have turned their backs on me, please delete me from Facebook and disassociate yourself from me as much as possible because I don’t want to have anything to do with you.'

Read this paragraph again. She is patronizing, and telling those ones who did not approve of her actions, and did not want to be by her side, which would be that of a thief and a rioter, so, she is the one telling those people to 'F**k off!'. This putz has the audacity to say that she doesn't want to have anything to do with them, when in reality the common sense would dictate the ewxact opposite to be true. Unbelievable!

It's like Gregor Robertson telling Alex G Tsakumis to stop writing on his blog about the Three Stooges they (Penny, Gregor and Jimmy) have become.
As for Camille, she is the representative of the new breed of voters, the Vancouver Vision voter base, that of tree hugging hypocrites, self absorbed in their narcissistic nature of self entitlement.

She deserves a criminal record? You bet.
Should the business that was looted start a civil suit against her? Absolutely.
Should she be fired on the spot from her current workplace? No question about that.
UBC major in conservation...LOL,UBC would be looking foolish if she is not given her walking papers.

So that she would have the opportunity to start afresh.

She like all the other looters including that water punk baboon, have only one regret, and only one, they were stupid enough in their arrogance to not wear a balaclava. That's for the 'anarchist' scum they thought, and not for the well bred like themselves...

'Gee, so much brouhaha for a pair of pants, like, the store was already looted people, and like, the pants were man pants, not as if I needed them, geez, you people are so rectal...pleaaaseee not the treeees!' Camille C.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

The ONLY reason she came forward was that she got caught.

If no one had identified this thief - she'd be partying on as ususal.

I am glad her butt got fired from her job.

What a complete waste of air.

Something interesting was mentioned on Global news last night.

It had to do with Chu denouncing the Whitelaw report – which made me wonder if he had ever read or reviewed the report.

Robertson made a comment to CKNW that he didn’t read the report because any practice worth implementing would have been done so by now.

And we know Ballem did not read it.

But now I wonder if Chu or any of the other top brass have read it.

And I wonder if any of the recommendations were set in motion.

"Why do you think that? She has admitted her culpability, which shows that she is an honest person..."

She is an "honest person"?

Let's do a little math here:

1. She was an active member of a riot
2. She broke into a store and stole 2 pairs of pants (and possibly other things that were not caught on camera)

Honest is the last word one can use to describe her.

Your straw man arguments in regard to the evils of corporations are disgustingly pathetic, and do not at all help in dealing with this riot and its aftermath.

I mean, what are you saying here exactly?? Your assessment seems to be that we should all just go down to Granville Street and pillage that evil "corporate" place until there's nothing left.

Do you agree or disagree with that statement? Prove to us that you're not a Coward.

Either you are incredibly stupid or one of the most intellectually dishonest people in Vancouver.

"I mean, what are you saying here exactly?? Your assessment seems to be that we should all just go down to Granville Street and pillage that evil "corporate" place until there's nothing left."

She is honest for having admitted her culpability.

The issue is that motor vehicles KILL more people every year than riots have in the last twenty in Vancouver. So, where is the moral indignation? Where is the outrage? Where is the shaming of car drivers whose presence on the roads creates these conditions?

And there is none because upper middle class people lurve their cars, are not overtly hostile to pedestrians, but, as said, they don't shop at pedestrians, so when a pedestrian is killed by a car, oh well, shit happens, right?

It's simply hilarious that the same "oh well, shit happens" attitude isn't presented to damage to property. And what this shows is what these people truly value: corporations and property over human life.

I guess we could blame the media for not doing front-page specials for a week after every pedestrian fatality, demanding an answer to "how could this happen," but we know why it happens: people care more about convenience than they do about absolute safety, which would entail a ban on automobiles just as there is a ban on riots.

Riots are an inconvenience attendant upon such large crowds of people just as pedestrian fatalities are an inconvenience attendant upon such large crowds of automobiles. Should either occur? No.

But it is _very_ telling that there's no moral outrage over selfish car drivers, most of whom could take transit or walk, especially if they redesigned their lifestyles around safety as their prime directive. But we know that won't happen---there's too much shopping to do at the HBC, how will they carry all that loot home without a car?

I read that he denounced it because Whitelaw didn't write it.

It appears that Whitelaw worked on an earlier draft that was not included in the final report.

The authors of the final report have said on the news that Whitelaw's contributions were not included.

It appears that the media didn't do enough checking before reporting this.

I have just reviewed the 94 Report's recommendations. It seems plausible that some of the recommendations have been implemented, and some have become irrelevant because of technological changes. Reality Check may be correct in suggesting that a number of recommendations appear to not have been followed.

On another tack, it took about 7 or 8 minutes to read through the recommendations, which enabled me to realize its 94 conclusions would form the basis of an excellent checklist that could have been used by Gregor Robertson and his Vision Councillor planners to ensure staff were, in fact, properly prepared. Is it possible that the Mayor is rather unhappy that his staffer did not realize its usefulness after reading the report, and not bringing it to his attention?

This is off topic and a bit of my own personal rant but:

Next month, July 23, Kits is having a summer music festival of sorts.

West 4th from Burrard to Macdonald is being closed down.

Now, the Kits business association only operates to cover a certain blockage along West 4th, which is roughly Burrard to Balsam - which means only the businesses in that area recieve support from the business association.

So, the businesses that run west of Balsam, get no support - they are not part of/covered by the BA.

There are local merchants that are now trying to organize something to bring people to this part of West 4th.

They are having to do this out of their own pockets.

When I asked one of the shop owners about the street closure being extended all the way to Macdonald - he replied they were told by the City that it was being closed. It was not the BA's initiative - the City is closing it.

You have a lot of small mom and pop shops located in these blocks that can't afford to lose a full day's profits, they are getting no financial support to 'create' something for that day - and will be out of pocket for whatever they do. They were given no choice.

All the events planned only run from Balsam to Burrard.

Fabulous heh!

Isn't it lovely when the city licenses a riot (a tumultuous breach of the beach and obstruction of a road?)

If a bunch of people go into a road and say 'WE'RE NOT MOVING! WE WANT TO HAVE FUN!' that is a riot.

But the City apparently can license a riot. Cute, isn't it?

The Thought of The Day

'Idiots. You Can’t Live With Them, You Can’t Live Without Them.'

Thanks for calling in,A.Coward.

Few things. Cars kill. Huh!? No.
Drunk,irresponsible,assholes just like the ones you defend here do!

This has nothing to do with corporations. I don't like them either. They are greedy, corrupt, insensitive. True. So? Let's change the corporation law. But then, how would Solomon's Renewall Investment Fund make money, eh? See where I'm going with this?

This After Riots Inquiry is supposed to be dealing with hooliganism, drunkenness, civil unrest, lack of respect for others, narcissism, ego-centrism, a herd mentality that started out from living in a virtual world, that of Twitter and Facebook, and from a 'free loading on their parents' attitude.

For every person looting that day, there were 100 more taking cell phone pictures, shooting video or cheering up.

Police cruisers are not corporate toys, they are taxpayer funded vehicles. Sidewalks are public, those huge TV screens were for the public benefit, paid by public money (what a stupid move that was, Gregor and Penny... tough, eh?)

Some of the businesses looted on Granville St. were small family businesses, not corporations, employing 2-3 people, now probably being let go as there is no 'Riot Insurance' clause in their insurance policies, not for this stores, no.

Drugs kill.
Cigarettes kill.
Bombs kill.
Cancer kills.

Yeah, so what has this to do with the Vancouver Riots? Nothing.
Another Biking shmuck trying to spin and deflect away from the topic.

Cars kill? No.
Drunk,irresponsible, assholes just like the ones you defend here do!
I say, lock them up and throw away the key.

Two birds. One stone.
Sounds like a good plan to me!

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

Oh, Dear. God.

Well, it didn't take long for AC to be hoisted on the petard of his/her own argument and descend even further into that "higher purpose" person that he/she obviously is. Which means that he/she has now gone off on some sort of tangent, in order to try to draw attention away from the man behind the curtain.

It's always bad when the crowd starts laughing AT you, AC.

Max, your rant is not off topic at all! It is spot on! The City, in particular, the brainless "brain trust" and the special events group have no care for anyone at all in their quest for "fun". Fun for whom? Let's close down a street so customers can't get to businesses, that's fun! Cyclists and those on foot can get there, so that's fun for them too! Fun fun fun, fun fun fun.... You know what else starts with an "F"?

They don't need a plan to put on a street party! They don't even need insurance, something they insist on if you and I want to do the same thing! They don't need a permit, because they are the City, and they can do whatever "fun" things as they want! Like a riot! That was "fun", wasn't it?

Who wants to join me in having some "fun" in turfing those morons out of office?

Gary Mason, this morning's Globe + Mail.

This afternoon we get reports on 'NW that the cops said all was well as per manpower. Then another, that the Mayor said "you can have as many as you want---as long as you do it within your budget". Then Meggs, saying "we listened to and took instructions from the Chief"

And now, Gord MacDonald bearing down on accountabilty of the Mayor, Ballem and the Chief (3:10pm today. Go to audio vault at 4pm).

Three blind mice---see how they run.

This provincial inquiry needs all these people on the witness stand. Not a bloody "look back" at the '94 riot.

The BA's get money from the City for these street fairs.

According to a report from March - $650K was allocated.

But for these businesses that fall outside of the BA enchachment area - they get no funding.

Yet, they are effected by the street closure. (This is the first year this area has been shut down)

These shops are banning together to organize something to bring people to their area.

All out of their own pockets.

At this point, we have live music - three entertainers that you would pay to see at the RiverRock Casino are donating their services. (One lives in the neighborhood)

Now working on pulling together a stage and sound system etc.

Along with other activities.

I so want to print a t-shirt with Cacnio's pick, smiling snd as she came out of the store with the pants ad this classic line:

So what did I do? I yelled at them, saying “Pleaaseee, not the treees!!!!” And what did they do? They stopped. And I felt like a hero.

Cacino, thief - Riot 2011

The Thought of The Day

'Ballem. Robertson. Chu. All Vision Vancouver appointees.The trick is to find someone foolish enough to steal from. Hence the name. Vision,from... Vancouver.'


Watch Charlie eating in a restaurant 'within' his budget.

Yes, quite right, Brenton. Apologies.

I misread your reply. Mr. Klassen knows my views.

We had to get a permit to have a simple, neighbourhood block party.
No, we don't have to pay for it, but we have to go get the barricades ourselves, put down a deposit, fill out forms,etc.

One time we even had someone at the City tell us that we couldn't completely block off 2 streets because it would affect too many neighbours.

they were all coming to the party.

I think downtown residents were pretty affected by the street party called Game 7.

Max, I think you will find that the Kits/4th Ave BIA is paying for this project without any city assistance. In fact, I am 99% certain. The city may have helped make it possible to extend the closures by waiving some fees but I don't think there was any grant applied for or awarded.

I would encourage your business associates to contact the Kits BIA to ensure they are not duplicating efforts aready in the works - even for the area outside the boundaries.

I forgot to mention that it was for an afternoon block party (over in 3 hours)

And it was.

Hi Julia:

These shops are not covered by the Kits BIA - they fall outside their 'area' and are not part of the 'association' - hence the problem.

Anyways, the Kits festival has live music - they have 4 or 5 bands and none of them are situated beyond the Balsam St. cut off.

So the merchants west of there are fending for themselves. One of the neighborhood groups is organizing a big street 'garage' sale.

And according to the BIA webiste - they get a city grant to help cover these events off. In 2009/2010 it was $36K.

I live in the area - however, work from home, so having the street closed on a Saturday does not effect me - but there are a lot of shops that are husband/wife run or individually run - and this will effect them.

They have a choice, lose out on business or try to find away to draw people down this way.

And the expense will be out of pocket.

I was at one of the businesses this morning as they were trying to find something affordable for them to do - like face painting for kids. But that still comes in a $40+/hour.

And that's the problem!

If we were really communities we'd have people who would be able to face paint for free.
With no liability issues.

"Cars kill? No.
Drunk,irresponsible, assholes just like the ones you defend here do!
I say, lock them up and throw away the key."

If you ever want to do something fun, code up a particle simulation (I mean, we're all computer programmers these days, right?) where each particle has a less than perfect chance of avoiding another particle with which it is on a collision course. Increase the number of particles. Watch the inevitable collisions.

Collisions within particle systems are inevitable, and when we compare the carnage that is accepted as a "cost of business" for the pedestrian+street particle system, it is far more than the unacceptable horrorshow of the game 7 aftermath, which did not kill anyone. Get that many particles into an area, they'll smash into things. Don't like it? Find a universe where the probability of a collision is 0. As long as it is > 0, as the number of particles increases, the number of collisions increases.

"This has nothing to do with corporations....Police cruisers are not corporate toys, they are taxpayer funded vehicles."

"WHEREAS...the City of Vancouver...[applied] the Legislature for a Private Bill, to be known as the Vancouver Charter
The inhabitants of the area, the boundaries of which are described in this section, shall continue to be a corporation and a municipality with the name of City of Vancouver"
(Vancouver Charter)

And just so you don't think this is a later anomaly,

"WHEREAS it is expedient that the inhabitants of the tract of land commonly known as the Town of Granville and vicinity should be incorporated,
the inhabitants of the tract of land...are hereby declared to be a body politic and corporate in fact and in law by the name of "The City of Vancouver""
(Quotes in the original, funny how they made it so absolutely clear the name is "The City of Vancouver" not "City of Vancouver" and that such is a Body Politic and Corporate, not a Body Corporate alone)
49 Vict. (A.D. 1886) Ch 32

So (The) City of Vancouver has always been a corporation, always will be, and police are Corporate Enforcers---look at what the franchisees of this corporation get upset about. Pedestrians being killed? Nah, that's just what happens---but cause damage to their favorite corporations: HBC, Sears, &c &c and they are up in arms calling the people who did such villainous scum.

Taxpayers = Corporate Franchise Holders. Taxes are levied to support their corporation. Note that the original corporation is an "expedient." Given the inability to maintain peace, good order of the corporation and its supporters, perhaps it is no longer expedient?

"We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy."

Do you? If you mean the region commonly known as Vancouver City, sure. If you mean the Corporation...well...I hate to break it to you, such is fiction. Expedient fiction, perhaps, but fiction none the less. I live on Wonderland, way better fiction =]

"Which means that he/she has now gone off on some sort of tangent, in order to try to draw attention away from the man behind the curtain.

It's always bad when the crowd starts laughing AT you, AC."

There is no man behind the curtain. It's all the franchise-holders, all of the voters who enable the Corporation who are accountable. "heads" and "fuhrers" are just a way for the people who voluntarily elect them to remain unaccountable.

As for the crowd laughing, oh, dear me, I was hoping for applause, but laughter, that's OK, too. Anything but rotten fruit :(

So, my idea of having a pop-up wine patio might meet resistance????

I do have my serving it right ticket and can get some rope to outline my area....

re face painting:

Agreed, they have to have special insurance to work on kids and proper paints....

I will be setting up a table and selling off some of my samples (sportswear) and donating the money. I haven't decided on which charity it will go to yet.


this AC almost sounds like Richard....

Could be.

Max: again, I would strongly encourage them to check directly with the BIA for the area to find out what is being done and how.

The scenario you are describing is not making sense based on the information that I have. I am sure the merchants are concerned - but they may be missing some critical info.


I have the e-mail for the new BIA director (?).

I will contact him myself.

But the info I have posted is consistant with several businesses in the area - they all seem to be on the same page as to where they stand.

Yes, Max...I would urge you to contact the new ED. (he has been there over a year and is a very approachable and enthusiastic individual). I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

I have alerted him to your post.


I have sent an e-mail to the BIA.

Hopefully, this is just a case of poor communication.

I will post the feedback when it is recieved.

Max, I hope so too. My first hand experience with retail merchants is that they are horrible at reading information that comes to their door. You can hit them over the head with the same info 3 times and they still swear up and down they did not see it.

Hopefully it will be a great event for the neighbourhood.

Me too Julia:

But in this case, several merchants all on the same page. I was with the one this morning as I promised to help source certain 'things' at the Commercial/Main Steet Car Free Days.

They have spoke to/e-mailed the BIA and have received the same response - hence their counter measures.

Regardless of what happens, it will be a good day. This area is pulling together and creating 'fun'.

If you come by - sign my 'art' piece I am putting together. I may do two - one for adults and one for kids - wishing Vancouver a Happy 125th! It will be framed after the fact and placed - yet to be determined.....:)

As for the sportwear samples - the monies will go to VORKA.

Max, please let me know how the conversation plays out.

Hi Julia:

Got the feeback from the BIA:

The bands will be located at -

Arbutus, Cypress, Vine and Maple. So nothing in this area.

Kits Neighborhood House is running a Garage Sale (we knew that)

The merchants in this area - Trafalgar to Macdonald - are invited to participate (they don't really have a choice as the street will be shut down regardless).

Anyways - I just dropped off my 'monetary contribution' in order to secure activity in this area.

I do love how this area gets shut down - so the City can promote its car free days, yet, they offer no financial assistance as we are not part of the BIA.

Max, my understanding is the BIA got no money from the city to produce this event and the additional closures were insisted upon by FEST and the city. Merchants are picking up the entire tab through their mandatory BIA levy, unless there is some sponsorship dollars secured which will be used to promote the event for the entire area.

Any time an event like this is produced, the organizers create the shell, and it is up to individual merchants to leverage the opportunity.

Do I think these types of events are good for business - to be blunt... not unless you are a restaurant with a patio. Street festivals rarely make the till ring but people seem to love neighbourhoods that put them.

I am by no means the popular opinion on the subject.


I agree with your opinion on the the benefits to the local merchants.

I know it the past, very few have even particpated in this festival (it has changed names many times over the years)

I know when I first moved to kits in 1993, they ran the soapbox derby from Balsam to Macdonald.

Anyways, we have secured performers.

The music will range from latin/jazz to country. So different than the alternative music running the rest of West 4th. There will also be activities for kids and m 'art' idea.

So, I do hope those that plan on attending - venture down and visit us!

actually, I have been invited to participate so we will see what my calendar brings.

Check out!

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