Loss of Canada Post jobs in Downtown Vancouver a hit to City's job targets

Post by Daniel Fontaine in

71 comments

canada-post
Canada Post announces over 1,200 jobs are moving to Richmond

As part of his promise to create a new green economy for Vancouver, Mayor Gregor Robertson said he would create 20,000 new jobs in the city by 2020. Of course, that meant committing to creating employment in Vancouver's downtown core.

That was then, this is now.

Mayor Gregor’s hopes and dreams took another blow with the announcement that Canada Post is packing up its downtown location and moving to the neighbouring City of Richmond. Not only will the building be boarded up, but over 1,200 well-paying jobs are heading out of Vancouver. Surely this wasn’t the kind of economic nirvana Mayor Gregor was thinking of when he mapped out his plan to create all those new jobs.

As per the Mayor’s office standard operating procedure, they put Councillor Geoff Meggs (known by some media as The Garbage Man because of how he fields questions about bad stories on behalf of the Mayor) out in front of the cameras to be the point person on this topic. The Vancouver’s Sun’s Jeff Lee commented on how difficult it was to spin this out as good news. However, give Meggs credit for trying:

The city was working with Canada Post to try to find ways to keep them there, but it appears that effort hasn't worked out. That's the bad news. The good news is that this is a superb building that will be repurposed. We need to find a way to create jobs down there.

I’m not sure touting the benefits of a big empty building in your downtown core is going to go very far with the public. After all, downtown Detroit is full of empty buildings, but nobody there thinks that a “great opportunity” for repurposing.

It is worth noting that Robertson has flip-flopped on his election commitment on jobs. There were no big press conferences to announce it, nor did the mayor make himself available for another feel-good photo op. Nope. Vision Vancouver backpedaled on their commitment and there was nary a mention in the media. Not even my friend Allen Garr over at the Courier took the time to cover it.

To be fair, Mayor Gregor has come out with a new commitment of stating he wants to double the number of green jobs in Vancouver by 2020 – whatever that means.

I’m always a bit leery when I hear politicians of all stripes saying they are going “to create jobs.” I think what most of them really mean to say is they are going to create the right conditions for private sector job growth. Albeit some of the more left-leaning politicians really do believe government’s role is to take money from taxpayer's pockets and create more public service jobs. This is never a recipe for sustainable economic growth.

While I don’t take issue with Mayor Gregor putting a focus on supporting the local economy, I do find his methods a bit maddening. For example, we’ve been told for years that Vancouver’s cruise ship industry is hurting. Competition from the Port of Seattle and Victoria continues to bleed off thousands of passengers from passing through Metro Vancouver, and spending money.

Yet despite this harsh reality, Mayor Gregor spends an inordinate amount of time courting media-friendly pipe dreams of establishing a high-speed rail link between Vancouver and Seattle. To date his efforts have proven fruitless. And given how the border between the US and Canada continues to tighten up, it’s hard to imagine that a speeding train will be allowed to zip back and forth over the border anytime soon.

The Mayor’s focus on green often times means he can’t see any other colours in the rainbow. Economic growth isn’t just about attracting high-profile new companies to Vancouver, it’s also equally about retaining the jobs you already have.

On that score, the loss of all those well-paid unionized jobs from downtown Vancouver is a sign the Mayor has a long way to go in meeting one of his core commitments to voters.

- Post by Daniel. Follow us on Twitter @CityCaucus.

71 Comments

I'm continually surprised ho much the City of Flint, MI (my former home) and Vancouver have in common. It too just took another hit several months ago to its own downtown mail processing facility, with the mayor clamoring to raise enough pomp and circumstance about it to look good. Unfortunately, his own political party had doomed the city's facility almost a decade prior through politic-ing with USPS to build an (at the time) unneeded suburban facility elsewhere in the state that the USPS then used to justify shutting down facilities in Detroit, Flint, and surrounding cities. Not sure what sort of process has led to Vancouver's facility being moved, but completely agree how maddening how little attention is given to such things until it's too late.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you left the Detroit comparisons out of your arguments. [comment removed]

"After all, downtown Detroit is full of empty buildings, but nobody there thinks that a “great opportunity” for repurposing."

Daniel, this took about a minute to find, dated April 7, 2011:

"DETROIT (AP) -- Online retail mortgage lender Quicken Loans is keeping to its promise to help Detroit's revitalization by closing on the purchase of a 14-story, 505,000-square-foot office building downtown, company officials said Thursday."

and:

"Gilbert, who also owns the NBA's Cleveland Cavaliers, called the section of Woodward Avenue adjacent to Campus Martius "Webward Avenue" and wants other companies to join Quicken and software developer Compuware Corp. downtown.

"That's our thing," he told The Associated Press on Wednesday. "Those dozers out there in the suburbs -- I think it's time they wake up. They are going to lose opportunities in their own back yard."

He hopes to fill available space in the Chase Tower with major retail tenants.

"We have to be a destination," Gilbert told the AP. "We're about to be in flat-out recruiting mode for large tenants. They have knocked on our doors without us even asking."

J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. will continue occupying parts of the Chase Tower, while some current vacant space is being allocated for several midsize to large companies interested in relocating to the business district."

Maybe Detroit isn't quite ready for Robocop just yet.

Shaun S...
I totally agree, I don't think Chris really knows or understands Detroit and it's issues...

George:

Shaun's comments were directed towards Daniel, unless he's capable of looking four minutes into the future and predicting what I'm going to type.

The comments are listed by most recent at the top on this blog remember?

47% of Detroit is illiterate, so I doubt the residents there have much of a grasp of the issues either. Half of the illiterate population of Detroit actually graduated from the public system. Yet they'll likely clamor for more public schools to fix the illiteracy created by public schools in the first place. Demand more government intervention in business to fix the problems caused by government meddling. Cry for bigger unions because the unions drove away the businesses. It's endless... and everyone loses. (except JP Morgan)

Detroit is the ultimate example of what leftist "social change" looks like.

PS: Canada Post needs to be privatized.

All one has to do is find out the lease rate and tax rate for the same square footage in each jurisdiction and you may find your answer.

Easy access to mail coming in by plane for re-direction, it is is a wonder the post office has been there as long as it has.

hey Birdy

I've posted this before, but it fits so well with your comment....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hhJ_49leBw

As for Detroit they are working on a program right now to get residents to move closer together to make the city smaller for services...amalgamate...there are some areas that have only one resident per six block area....city will purchase their home and relocate them...

Gman.... LOL oh the visual...

@Daniel

It would be nice if you actually did a bit of research for a change before you spread fear and misinformation about high speed rail.

I was just in Spain where they have a great high speed rail system and was at the station where several people were killed in a terrorist attack a few years ago. They did have baggage screening at the station before getting on the train in Madrid but it was much quicker than airport screening. They only checked the bags with a screening machine. People were not required to empty pockets, take off belts and shoes or go through metal detectors. You see, it is rather hard to fly a train into a building. I though that was obvious but I guess not.

They aren't too strict about it either. On the train back to Madrid from Lisbon, they didn't even bother checking the bags. On trains to the states, the can simply prescreen passengers and baggage at the station in Vancouver and speed across the border no problem at all. For an express train to Seattle if they are really concerned, they can check passengers after they disembark from the train as well.

All and all, even with reasonable security measures, rail will still be quicker, more convenient and much less degrading than flying.

Washington state has gotten close to a billion dollars to improve rail along the corridor. It is truly embarrassing that the BC and Canadian governments have not stepped up to improve the tracks to the border.

U.S.A. real estate is ridiculously cheap right now. The Silverdome in Pontiac, Michigan sold for $500,000 including 127 acres of land. The best way to deal with the Asian invasion? Give them a brochure for Las Vegas real estate. Or Palm Springs etc. etc. Ten to twenty times the value of Vancouver real estate. Canada Post would be wise to sell their downtown property before this bubble bursts.
One can't help but wonder if Vision's war against the car played a role in this. It most certainly has become more difficult to get around downtown due the the Dunsmuir and Hornby misadventures.
It's even a greater shame because now after The Big One we won't have an airport or a post office.

There is a sustained program going on right now, to reinvent Detroit (you may have seen some commercials with Eminem in them). They will probably do some amazing deals to get industries like hi-tech to populate the city.

With the economy in the state it's in down there, it's position relative to Chicago and New York, and lower real estate prices to boot, thee exists a pretty attractive opportunity.

"...Vision's war against the car..."

Do you actually believe this or is it just fun to say so you do? You know, cause it's dumb.

Did you read the last posting? More like the car has declared war on pedestrians and the car is winning. To be more accurate, it is more like a war against people in general. Although, with between 1.2 and 1.5 million people killed in the world each year in car crashes, the car is even worse than war these days.

Time to drop the over dramatic war on the car BS.

It's like talking to the wall. Take off your blinders, you're missing most of the show.

Do you believe it isn't true, or is it fun imitate an ostrich? Truth, the saying goes, is the first casualty of war. Why would City Council declare the carbon-negative, safety neutral Burrard lanes an unqualified success otherwise? The Hornby monstrosity will most certainly kill or maim one or more cyclists before the fall equinox-but they do a bang up job of making driving in the city miserable. Parking metering and enforcement have become instruments of harassment and oppression against professional and private drivers alike. You're damn right there's a war against cars. More than that there's a war against the very types of groups this Council was elected to take care of. Soon after passing the most oppressive anti-protest bylaw in North America, in typical Vision Orwellian doublespeak declaring it groundbreaking freedom of speech legislation, the police it was used to shut down a homeless protest. Spot rezonings are blighting neighborhoods as "green" is used as cover to reward this groups union and developer supporters. Vision is for sure at war with the car, but they're also at war with large and growing groups of their own citizenry.

"the police it was used to shut down" corr. the police used it to shut down

what does the closing of Canada Post have to do with cars and bike lanes?

give it a rest boys!

Daniel, your economic analysis is hopeless. I hope you are not advising Mike. No sane manager would keep Canada Post processing downtown given current distribution patterns. And Canada Post is less and less important to the economy. It is a dinosaur struggling to survive. No governement could or should be trying to keep it downtown. Creative destruction at work.

"Detroit is an example of what leftist social change looks like."

OK, I am a bit reluctant to continue this whole irrelevant Detroit thread, but this comment is so removed from reality and the actual history of Detroit I can't resist. Detroit is an example of what happens when you subsidize an industry (US auto industry), ignore global production shifts as long as possible, destroy your inner city, in part by relying on the car, and underfund public goods in the name of low taxation and transfering wealth into the private sector through subsisides.

Gerry, quite a tangential rant there. I think your entire paradigm is bs, there is no 'war' on anything here.

Before these bike lanes, what percentage of the street network in the City is designed for the automobile? What is the percentage after?

If that's what war looks like, the car doesn't even know it's in one.

(ps. I notice they're still working on those left turn bays at 33rd and Knight--same price tag as the hornby bike lane but no one bitches and moans about that, no one laments the idling traffic due to construction, no one questions the expropriations required, etc...)

Obviously you aren't from that area Steven... it was not the automobile industry that destroyed Detroit...

It was more about people judging people for the color of their skin that ruined Detroit. That is where it began..

It was bad city planning, developers greed ...it was much worse because of the undercurrent of poverty, race and hate..The "greed of all unions" contributed greatly..

To blame it on the car, is not really accurate...it was much, much more than that.. Sadly it was not a very pretty time in history..

Truth be told Steven, there are times when I see the "car vs bike" situation in Vancouver developing the same venom that existed in Detroit during the sixties..

The Post Office leaving downtown is an example..that is how it starts...

It started with one group thinking they were more entitled,or superior than another...

History has a way of repeating itself..

I'm just astonished with your comment Steven. Why on Earth would you just give up on 1700 jobs because Canada Post is a "dinosaur". Should we also get rid of all the forestry and mining jobs downtown too? Aren't they also considered sunset industries? Where does this all end?

It would appear that unless jobs are part of the new "green" economy, they simply don't align with your vision for the future of downtown Vancouver. What misguided thinking.

Rather than lecturing me on my economic analysis, why don't you ask local economists if they think your job creation model is what will keep Vancouver vibrant in the years to come. You'll likely be surprised by their response.

We need to keep (and create) as many jobs in the downtown core as possible - including postal jobs.That's critical if we don't want to begin a reverse flow of shipping people out of the core and into the suburbs every morning to go to work. Now how enviro-friendly would that be?

@ Steven Forth
Through mail as a means of basic communication is fading, the rise of online shopping has in many ways made it even more important economically. That said, the downtown site is probably better used some other way now (just not more condos!). It is too bad the Canada Post plant couldn't be relocated somewhere in Vancouver, perhaps along the river on vacant industrial land.

Hi Daniel (ok, so I am grumpy this morning, I apologize). But I am strongly supposed to attracting jobs with tax payer subsidies, and I think that is the only way that one could keep Canada Post downtown. These operations make more economic sense at the airport. As far as I know we are not subsidizing the mining and foresttry industries to have head offices downtown. In any case, these are not sunset industries. They need reinvention and new financing for sure, but a green & sustainable forestry industry is likely to be a big part of Vancouver's growth. Properly managed, forestry is about as green an industry as you can get. Much greener than solar energy. Mining may be more problematic, but even as we move to cradle-to-cradle design we are going to need new and different mineral flows. And some of the expertise in mining can be reapplied into circular product flows. I would rather have mines managed out of Vancouver, where there is real work being done on what a sustainable economy means) than in an other jurisdiction where people have no say and the investors don't care. Detroit is an example of what happens to a city when it hangs on to old industries too long.

Off topic but of interest:

Coquitlam/CKNW(AM980)
Charmaine de Silva | Email news tips to charmaine.desilva@corusent.com
5/21/2011


Premier Christy Clark joined Housing Minister Rich Coleman in Coquitlam Friday, to promote the construction of the first provincially-funded, affordable housing project for families in the Tri-Cities, in over a decade.

The province is kicking in $7.3 million for the project, which will provide homes for 30 single moms and their children.

The 4-storey, wood-frame, condo building on Como Lake Road is expected to be complete by next spring.

Land for the project was donated by the City of Coquitlam.

Why isn't anyone talking about how many jobs had already left the downtown Canada Post processing plant, and that much of the building is already sitting empty. While the closure of the plant is a blow, it's been coming for some time.

Max

I'm really torn about this... on one hand it is great that single Moms are getting housing... but is segregation of certain societies the best way to form a healthy society??

What do you think?

It seems similar to the partnership between the City of Surrey and the YWCA.

They are building apartment units for single moms, which will inlcude a daycare and job training.

Let's face it George, women end up as the care takers of the children in most cases. And reports I've read site divorce as a huge player in child poverty.

There are places that will not rent to people with kids.

I understand what you are saying, but having friends that have been single moms, I know how they have had to struggle and some of the crap places/locations they have lived because that is what they could afford. So I am okay with it.

It would be great if they could include a play area for the kids as well.

Sadly Max,

Been there, done that... was not healthy...history repeats itself... A mix is important to me..I see it as a better balance for the child's growth.

I agree that the housing options for low cost affordable housing for parents with kids in this city are deplorable, and discriminatory..lets not forget single parent Dads...

In Vancouver it is easier to get housing with a dog, than with a child..

Hey George, my boyfriend is a single dad as well. His wife walked on on he and their daughter when she was only 4 years old.

I do like this 'idea' or model.

Perhaps it is something the city could work on with the Province for local projects.

Something like this and yes, it is a community of sorts, would be dollars better spent housing the homeless than the HEAT shelters.

Max....Exactly my friend exactly!!!!

The shelters are doing nothing but creating a ghetto of poverty, drugs and misery.... if this government is sincere about "families first" they should look into investing in families.. not creating "islands " of poverty and segregation...it all starts with your family, the environment in which you grew up...

Kudos to your "MANFRIEND" as it takes a real man to take on the responsibility of raising a child....it appears we have much in common... :-)

Give it a rest, the Post Office moving has nothing to do with bike lanes or anything the City of Vancouver could or should do. Given current distribution systems it belongs near the airport.

And there seems to be a lot more venom on the part of the car users, who feel entitled to the roads, then the cyclists I talk to on the streets.

Blaming the unions for the folly and incomeptence of Detroit's management is inaccurate and unfair. And many of the issues in Detroit itself could have been dealt with or at least moderated by appropriate investment in public goods.

Steven,
Unless you lived it my friend... you know not of what you speak....by your response it is very clear you did not experience it..so perhaps you should give it a rest as well, and listen to other opinions without the put downs..

Sorry you are so grumpy today... guess it is the rain..usually you are much more tolerant and respectful...

"But I am strongly supposed to attracting jobs with tax payer subsidies"

Are you serious? The whole move to a green economy cannot happen without subsidies. Just because the consumer is paying it through higher energy costs (or carbon taxes) doesn't make it any less a subsidy. And the experience shows that each new green costs more jobs than are created.

Hi Bob H

Not sure that we need a public corporation to provide package delivery today, but I have not looked into this. I do think the facility belongs near the airport for the time being. The downtown building was under used and we are better off with it repurposed and not with subsidizing jobs. That said, I would like to better understand what drives the large volume of condo development in Vancouver (tax, zoning, housing prices, developer incentives, financial returns). I am a big supporter of Mike Klassen's view that we need to have land available for local manufacturing. And I believe that we are on the cusp of a major resurgence of local, high-information, manufacturing. In Vancouver, some of it will likely use sustainably harvested wood from a rebounding forestry and wood processing industry.

@Gerry

Your suggestion that there is a war on the car is truly ridiculous and insulting and disrespectful to people who have and continue to suffer the horrible effects of war. I suggest a trip to Libya would help clarify this for you. Or you could just do some research on the Internet. No cars are being damaged, destroyed, tortured or being held prisoner.

Just how is this a war on cars? Only one out of 14 streets downtown has separated bike lanes and cars still have 3 times the space even on the streets with separated bike lanes.

At worst, they are being slowed down a bit which will actually protect them from damage along with pedestrians and cyclists.

So enough of the drama king BS that seems to be a symptom of driving. Stick to the issues and avoid the ridiculous rhetoric.

Canada Post in BC needs a big shake up because their delivery service is terrible. They seldom meet their stated targets, and offer no reason or apology. Too bad it could not be privatized. But we taxpayers do not need the Post Office to utilize expensive downtown land. It would be much better if that old building was demolished and a commercial highrise constructed in its place. The profits from the sale of a rezoned chunk of prime land could well pay for a new building in Surrey. Now if the Good Mayor declined a request to rezone that land for a commercial high rise, the feds could always recoup the lost funds by shorting the City on the usual grant funds they gift to Vancouver each year.

@bobh

I use the post a lot, due to my job.

With that said, I still can not figure out or get an answer to why a 'fuel surcharge' is included on ground parcels when fuel surcharges were introduced to offset fuel charges for air.

Now the air parcels I understand, but to charge a fuel surcharge to ship a packet from Vancouver to Coquitlam.....

There are still alot of business that rely on snail mail and I don't see that changing in the near future.

@ George:

The project is the same as the Surrey initative:

From the Van. Sun:


Premier Christy Clark announced today the start of construction on a new housing project for single mothers in Coquitlam.

Como Lake Gardens will provide housing for 30 single-mother families.

The project was made possible through a unique partnership with the city of Coquitlam, which provided the land, a $7.3 million grant from the province, and $1 million in funding raised by the YWCA.

Janet Austin, CEO of the YWCA of Metro Vancouver, said, "There is just such a tremendous need for this kind of housing. We'll never address the poverty of children without addressing the poverty of mothers."

The project is one of several housing initiatives that the YWCA has committed to in an expansion of their ongoing commitment to "helping single mothers transition to economic independence," Austin said.


How many businesses, large and small are you willing to destroy to get your precious marginal increase in ridership?

Maybe Gregor can con a few hundred $mill out of rich American financial backers to build some social housing so he can get hos picture taken doing good deeds?

Or he can always go back to Hollyhock and grow organic turnips or whatever.

Or transition to permanent singleness. Is an impoverished single mother more worthy of support than an impoverished two parent family? Do you get kicked out if you marry or remarry? Who's your Daddy? Christy Clark?

better choice of words...

how many EMPLOYERS are you willing to destroy and how many jobs are you willing to lose?

Interesting Gerry.

Critics of the government are always screaming about child poverty in BC.

Here is a positive step towards helping some of those families and yet, you take issue with it.

I see this program as a positive move. And I hope to read more of these positive stories.

It is following the same model that the City of Surrey and YWCA started outting in place last year. It offers, day care, job training and a chance at a better life for both the mom and the kids.

A step in a right direction.

Those left turn lanes are expensive unneeded BS, just like the bike lanes. As for war, Vision's alignment with the Communist Party of China through their protest structure bylaw, the most repressive municipal legislation in North America, their "massaging" of accident statistics around the Burrard Street bike lanes, their disrespect for neighbourhood integrity, their elimination of judicial process for parking disputes, their starving of a largely compliant Parks Board and their chronic consistent suppression of freedom of information are all hallmarks of a renegade government. Not what voters thought they were getting in 2008.

Just wondering how many single mothers will be manufactured to take advantage of this gravy train. The YWCA is hardly what it used to be. Do some background research on them, you might be surprised.

I've seen this kind of housing before...

In my opinion, it breeds is second and third generation single mom's living in poverty...

I like to call it invisible institutionalization... easy prey... better to have a mix of families..not segregation..It creates stigma.

From CBC archives;

About 80 per cent of families with one parent in British Columbia are headed by women, according to new census figures that show a continued decline of the so-called nuclear family across Canada.

The latest data from the 2006 census, released Wednesday by Statistics Canada, indicates 15.2 per cent of families with children in what's known as the census metropolitan area of Vancouver have just one parent. That's about one in seven.

Families with one parent are far more likely to be led by a woman. Among the lone-parent families in the Vancouver region, 80.9 per cent are headed by females.

I 100% support housing for single Moms. Where I run into difficulty is how do we tell the single Mom she has to move when she is no longer 'single' or has children living at home.

To be honest, I would rather see a rent subsidy that must be backed up by an income tax filing and a declaration of status. Far less drama with hopefully the same outcome - affordable housing for those who genuinely need it.

Julia I totally agree with the rent subsidy... as well I think there needs to be changes to the Residential Tenancy Act.

The ability to deny housing to Mom's with children in safe clean housing is an issue that also needs to be addressed.

I know my building denies children...

Micheal Geller has stated many times about rent subsidies and housing low income tenants in buildings throughout the city...

Thank you! How about the money being spent on couples counselling and/or income supports for working couples? If you subsidize something you're guaranteed to get lots (more) of it.

then you are suggesting we help nobody... because that is the full extrapolation of your statement. I, for one, am not interested in living in that type of society.

And that is coming from a free enterprise, anti taxation without representation fanatic.

Gerry,
sorry, not sure what you meant in your comment but I think it was sarcasm... I believe we were talking about single Mom's.. I was referring to segregated housing and the need for a mix... not sure where you are going here..Clarify please..

Thanks

So that's why this punk Robertson went to China and England and USA on our dough so he can bring 'green" jobs? How? By moving 1200 of them away from Vancouver? I cannot think of a greenest job that the one of a postman, god bless them and their running shoes! :-)
This Mayor is a total idiot, Vision council and their advisers are a bunch of Happy Planet Juz lovers

I think I was agreeing with you. Unfortunaty unnumbered comments and replies makes it hard to keep track. As a
matter of fact, I'm weary of this thread, you can all have it w/o me. ttyl

Daniel and tech team -

is it possible in this template to have direct responses to a participants post fall underneath the actual posting? I have seen some formats where they are slightly indented.

We have about 4 sidebar conversations happening today and it is really confusing to follow.

Gerry Julia Max et all..
Totally agree with you about keeping up with conversations ..
That being said, I do thoroughly enjoy conversing with all of you... :-)

So much for recusing myself from this thread. I just reread my post(s), and I don't think it (they) extrapolates to that at all.

give single Mom's a break? and while your at it perhaps we should offer money for ....

that's how I read it. If that's not what you meant, you may wish to clarify.

What incompetent mayor gregor robertson and his Hollyhock farmers meant when he promised 20,000 green jobs to come to vancouver, he meant Richmond. He wanted to say Vancouver will give away 20,000 jobs making vancouver the greenest city of them all. Canada Post is one of them, maybe Shanghai Post will open their main office here, who knows?

what sort of carrot does Gregor have to attract these green jobs or any jobs for that matter??? Business should move here or restructure themselves because he says please?

He cannot offer subsidized rents - he is not the landlord. He cannot offer an income tax break for relocation - he is not the province or the feds.

He could attempt to create zoning opportunities but we are more interested in creating affordable housing than commercial opportunities. He could also attempt to make his jurisdiction competitive from a property tax perspective - but he has a long way to go on that front. Is he going to exempt new businesses from property tax (tax holiday) and ask the existing businesses to pick up the slack?

what am I missing that he could do to magically create these jobs?

Julia:

I googled green jobs to get a better definition of what they are:

A green job, also called a green-collar job is, according to the United Nations Environment Program, "work in agricultural, manufacturing, research and development (R&D), administrative, and service activities that contribute(s) substantially to preserving or restoring environmental quality. ...

and

A green job is any job or self-employment that genuinely contributes to a more sustainable world.

A green job is the coming together of a company or organization, with an individual motivated and capable of performing the role. The company or organization can either be in a 'green' sector (e.g. solar energy), or in a conventional sector but making genuine and substantial efforts to green its operations (not just greenwash).

Working in a green job must be part of a person's green lifestyle. Somebody who participates in the consumer lifestyle, sprays their lawn with pesticides and drives their SUV to work is probably doing more harm than good – no matter what their work. While nobody can be perfect, each of us must do everything we can to live in greener, healthier ways. People who choose sustainable lifestyles often find that their financial needs decrease, giving them greater flexibility to get training, switch careers, start a business, work part time, and live a healthier lifestyle.

So, the big question is, how does this definition fit Vancouver?

I am truly,truly, truly, tired of the 'green' sanctimonious lifestyle.
Grow lettuce in planters in our balcony and we can solve the worlds problems.


I remember trying to prevent children from being sold into prostitution and slavery.

People were not interested in what we had to say then.

Bike lanes, hockey, and partying on the city streets are way more important.

Anybody else want to arbitrate this? I don't quite follow Julia here..

With pleasure Gerry... Julia, Gerry agrees with your comment about rent subsidies, using income tax to decide qualifications.. I think... after going back through the thread that is the conclusion I came to..
Wow what a day :-)

Danial...new topic pleassssseeeee!!!

Anyone want to comment on the Provincial Government looking at opening up a free trade zone in BC?

If it does happen, I wonder what type of impact it will have on our local ports.

thanks George! I will take your word for it. I with you... Daniel- we desperately need a new topic!!!!!!

The Thought of The Evening

'A Green Job is the new euphemism for A New Racket Job. Think 'Renewal Fund' instead of 'Vulture Fund'. Sounds innocent, most definitely it will cost you more to upkeep, but it will make you feel better when the time for that flight to New York would fall into your taxpayer funded travel and entertainment budget. I wonder...what would Andrea do?'

FYI Max...Def: 'A Vulture Fund is a private equity or hedge fund that invests in debt issued by an entity that is considered to be very weak or dying on our Happy Planet, or whose debt is in imminent default. The name is a metaphor comparing these investors to vultures patiently circling, waiting to pick over the remains of a rapidly weakening Juicy company.'

A fund like this comes and goes with the Tides both in Canada and the US, and if the fund is left in its FD Element to grow, you as an investor would soon enough be breathing more easily. 'All's well that Endswell!' they say.

I dunno, I may be wrong here, so don't quote me on that. It might not end well for them after all...I know that for the Canada Post employees it didn't.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

Gerry,

You never answered my question and then went on another strange rant. I guess you don't want to talk about it?

I hope we'll see at least the front section of this building preserved. It is a fine example of its period architecturally as well as being of engineering significance. If the VAG really must move it may be that this would be a good structure to convert, in the manner of the Tate Modern or the Musee d"Orsay.

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