Vision's "enemies list" nothing new to politics

Post by Mike Klassen in

49 comments

richard nixon
US President Richard Nixon caused a sensation with his own enemies list

Politics like so many things has a habit of repeating itself. And so it goes with the so-called Vision Vancouver media hit list, which were are assured by blogger Alex G. Tsakumis will be provided more evidence for on his site. The most famous example of an "enemies list" in political history is the one produced by US President Richard M. Nixon with the help of key aides.

According to Wikipedia Nixon's enemies list included newsman Daniel Schorr as well as actor Paul Newman and a host of other celebrities, political figures and institutions:

The full list includes many notable people and publications, including Jane Fonda, Bill Cosby, Gregory Peck, Ted Kennedy, Shirley Chisholm, Joe Namath, Bella Abzug, Barbra Streisand, Carol Channing, The New York Times, and The Washington Post.

As #1 on Vision's reputed hit list I'm quite happy to be in the company of many of the esteemed journos in the list of 15. Apparently Paul Newman was damn proud to be on Nixon's list. Writer Hunter S. Thompson, who wrote scathingly about Nixon, was deeply disappointed about not being on Nixon's hit list.

Now I know why I've been reading comments from everyone from Charlie Smith, Bob Mackin and Jeff Lee, as well as my colleague Daniel at their disappointment of not being higher on the so-called hit list. I guess I get to breath the rarified air of being on top – for now. As for Nixon's list, I'd be happy to be compared to anyone of the folks on that list, with the possible exception of Carol Channing – she was a little odd.

Wikipedia states that the official purpose, as described by the White House Counsel's Office, was to "screw" Nixon's political enemies, by means of tax audits from the Internal Revenue Service, and by manipulating "grant availability, federal contracts, litigation, prosecution, etc." Certainly there can be no doubt that the Vision hierarchs would like to – at the very least – "screw" those who are not playing their game.

Some media have been flagged already in Vancouver as being "Vision-friendly". Amazingly, there are entire news broadcasts today in our city that would never think of producing one pixel of bad coverage for Gregor Robertson. There are a sampling of other broadcasters, journalists and commentators who are far more coy about their support for Vision. Just thank your lucky stars that there are at least 15 folks (and several editors, and staff behind them) recognized for standing up in some way to Vision's sometimes bullying ways.

For the past two days Gregor Robertson's chief of staff has been calling news editors to castigate them for the hit list story coverage. There have been threats of lawsuits from the City of Vancouver to media outlets. It's a heavy hand instead of laughing it off as they probably should. The pressure must be huge for news room editors and media brass to stand up to these threats. These guys are heroes, folks.

Vision with the time left in their mandate will try to make the lives of their critics as uncomfortable as possible. They've already tried to attack me personally through spurious interpretations of my past and my business dealings. They've searched high and low for the elusive "financial backer" of CityCaucus.com, never once considering that this might be the effort of dedicated volunteers.

gregor nixonThe toxic work environment at Vancouver City Hall, which Penny Ballem and Gregor Robertson blithely shrug off as the result of "change", is the direct result of the type of us vs them culture Vision continually espouses. It would never occur to them that in order to correct any inefficiency or lethargy within the ranks of the civil service that you might use honey instead of vinegar, or trust rather than antagonism. But when you're boys might be out on a witch hunt for "enemies" to your cause, you don't expect happiness and light.

We're going into the final year before the election campaign begins. As much as I can I'm going to continue to hold Vision Vancouver's City Hall to account. Like when Nixon left the White House in disgrace, talking that final grim march to the helicopter, it would give me great pleasure to see the backs of motley crew who seek to "screw" Vancouver media they don't like.

- post by Mike

49 Comments


Threatening lawsuits ??? you have hit a really big nerve . . so keep poking & prodding and drilling . . .


Vision is blind and deaf to their own propaganda.

Here is a copy of the memo outlining what the Whitehouse would do to their non-supporters.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Dean-enemies-1.jpg

note how the memo says "key members of the staff should be requested to inform us as to who they feel we should be giving a hard time"

Does relentlessly phoning newsrooms, journalists, reporters and columnists to say their coverage isn't fair constitute giving some people a "hard time"?

You really aren't serious, are you? This is really a joke, right? You are comparing Gregor to Nixon, ha, have you actually read any history books other than wiki.

You and your small band of brothers are coming across like a group of obsessed nutters. I think you are loosing a grip on any form of perspective dealing with real issues of importance, and are in danger of loosing the wee bit of cred you might have had outside your sycophantic followers who slurp happily at this particular trough.

Take a big deep breath and stand back and really look at the rhetoric you put up here, as it only appeals to emotion, not intellect ... simply a form of propaganda for the NPA (tea) party agenda and definitely not journalism, regardless how loosely one defines journalism.

Do you have anything in there of any depth that might actually contribute to the broader dialogue of society building, how WE can move forward rather than always taking the easy path of ripping others down... at least a balanced approached would be refreshing every once in while.

You lost me at Nixon.

This rant brought to you buy someone in love with a party that subscribes to a 500-year global plan....starting with 12th and Cambie.

No not a rant, but a plea for something of real substance and depth for change, rather than constant back biting and taking the low road.

I'm not a vision person, didn't vote vision or for that matter NPA either, it just encourages them. Just someone who really would like to see some intellectual discourse on real issues rather than tilting at windmills or chasing ghosts.... whoever is in power in any organization has a difficult job during tough economic times, easy picken's for cheap shots... a real test of insight is through positive engagement and dialogue by ALL sides, Vision included.

Have a great long weekend.

I'd settle for a balanced budget and fixing potholes.
If people want to change the world, don't kid youselves into thinking be a Vancouver politician is the place to do it.

Rf, a shortsighted view indeed ... fixing potholes and balancing budgets are the yearly operational responsibility of any organization/mgmt team, yup they need to be done but thats obviously not only thing they need to do.

Who said anything about changing the world? It is about ensuring that Vancouver has a long term plan for growth, addressing OUR local social issues, infrastructure, etc, all within the context of sustainability ... and yes this includes dealing with potholes because of too many cars and not enough public transit in place, and bite my tongue not enough bike lanes... because of a lack of progressive longer term planning in the past.

City planning is not simply a monthly or yearly activity, but requires long term views (and plans), as it take a long long time transform a city to support the growth demands of vibrant, in demand, city like Vancouver that is on the Global stage in a very real way... just look at our demographics and investments streams from foreign interests.

Visions plans may not be perfect, far from it, but at least they are moving into future with eyes wide open to the challenges... a breath of fresh air actually.

take care.


"just look at our demographics and investments streams from foreign interests."

These demographics and investment streams you regale are a consequence of others efforts and when other governments were in place. In other words the Vancouver you enjoy now isn't credited to Vision Vancouver. Vancouver wasn't born last year when Vision took power.

Yes...by prancing along on trade trips to China with the poster boy company (Westport) for how to piss away $300million on green technology.

They'll come back and announce a contract for a couple of hundred engines for $10-$20mil. Westport will then proceed to spend $30mil to deliver on the contract.

The only green technology on this trip is the recycling of a bad business.

disappointed,

You talk about wanting something of real depth and substance and not taking the low road? Calling the NPA, the equivalent of the Tea Party isn't doing so? I think most Tea Partiers would find the NPA much too liberal for their taste and to compare the two is stupid. As the Nixon/Gregor reference loses you, the Tea Party/NPA reference loses me, and makes you look like a hypocrite, since you advocate not taking the low road.

Now, if you had an equally disparaging name for Vision and COPE, along *with* the NPA, it would look like you're somewhat unbiased, unlike your hollow claims to the contrary currently. As you request a balanced approach, you should heed your own advice and take a balanced approach as well.

@disappointed

"Visions plans may not be perfect, far from it, but at least they are moving into future with eyes wide open to the challenges... a breath of fresh air actually."

If only you were right...

Do you really think that Vision is moving foward with "eyes wide open"?

Just because the party name is Vision, it does not mean they have any vision. As a matter a fact, it's been a lack of vision that has gotten them into the bad press they've recieved lately. Although they may have lofty goals, achieving these goals by stepping on and pushing aside the basic "short term" requirements for the City is not the way to go.

Taking $300k out of a Capital Maintenance plan so that the Mayor can have a new office and the Councillors can have a new "smell free" lunch room is not moving forward with "eyes wide open"

Your comments sound like a sales pitch for Vision. Don't you know they've already completed the sale when they got voted in??? It's time for them to deliver, not give us any more sales pitches.

No wonder you are disappointed. You have nothing going on right for you at the moment. I agree Gregor should not be compared to Nixon. Nope, that would be boring. Though, I'd see him more like Khrushchev in a full body red leotard coordinated with a psychedelic green tutu. Now picture him on a bike, on Dunsmuir, going East.

I'm disappointed. You didn't vote whoever you are. So your interest in this subject is what, theoretical? Seems a bit odd.

You comment about short vs long term is also completely off base. What VV has been doing has &/or will be shown to have little or no long term benefit to the City, in fact quite the opposite. 2 Examples:

1] The STIR programme is already unraveling as developers are finding, as my analysis has shown, that STIR units "don't make financial sense" to quote a developer's rep recently.

2] Spot re-zonings are over-riding neighbourhood plans & negatively impacting on the quality of life in those communities. They are turning the planning & development processes into a crap shoot. Talk about taking the low road. There ain't one lower than that in the P & D sphere. This non-process is not only harmful to neighbourhoods short & long term but also, destablizes the real estate market, causing developers & contractors to go bankrupt & in the end attracts only bottom feeder developers, lowering, among other things the quality of the finished built product.

If that's you're idea of responsible & prudent civic governance, don't vote. Otherwise, make up your mind & get off your backside in Nov, 2011.

Wow, touch a nerve or what? Also I have to remark on the paranoia of the comments from Glenn and Higgins in the previous post about Boohoo trying to manipulate your thoughts and views with reverse psychology, double WOW… this is too funny.

Ok so here goes to the responses to my post today …

Bill: Yes I do vote, absolutely in every election I can… that was my attempt at humor, lighten up, eh. But now you are talking with your latest response! This is what you guys should be discussing and debating in depth, the Stir programme and Spot Re-zonings, etc… go to it, it is what is important in educating the public on real issues and concerns, not this constant he said she said banter about really nothing.

Red: I really am not a vision guy, fingers NOT crossed. The bad press of late is a result of a lot of factors; a team not really experienced with Fox news style of journalism, some real blunders in communications (e.g. NPA hacks and the Fword, oh my), not being as inclusive with the public as I personally like, and frankly, having to provide extra strong leadership in a hard economic environment means not making everybody feel warm and cozy all the time (some people won’t like it) … but they are learning, responding, and continue to move forward in trying to balance between the “short term” operational requirements and the longer term goals, as any leadership team needs to do… and as you must know if you neglect one for the other you will not be successful in business or governing, or at least not for long.
Judge them on the overall score of their performance in the polling booth next fall, democracy in action, the REAL achievements vs the REAL disappointments, they will have both …. If they don’t deliver enough by then, the voting public will determine if they should go or be given more time considering the current void in the other options.

SC: I have to admit I did take the low road with the Tea Party comment, sorry, but after reading Higgins comments about Gregor more like Khrushchev then Nixon, I think maybe I wasn’t too far off the mark … at least in style and the cynical approach to everything and anybody not in the party handbook.

Higgins: I’m only disappointed in the lack of thought and imagination of the “NPAcaucus.com” contributors… a sad commentary on the future of the NPA, and a very scary view if your ilk ever do manage to get back into power (think Palin as president, with the Tea Party cohorts in tow, actually sends chills up my spine). And you say the Vision squad are nasty, boy you guys really need to take a hard look in the mirror, or at least read your own comments now and again (particular your crazy uncle Alex).

Dennis: All I can respond to is it appears by your comments as if you have never really been involved in building a business, particularly a national one or one with a global reach… these trade missions are always much more than just a stack of signed contracts, with the real value in establishing relationships and connections for the future, as it takes years to develop solid global business relationships (particularly in China, where relationships are gold). So if all you measure is immediate gratification you will be happily disappointed with the results achieved, I guarantee it…. so start writing your condemnation blog now for posting on the day the team arrives back, it will save time – and you can share your notes with the MSM so they nicely dovetail together to weave a horrific and sad tale of political wrongdoings, headline “the Irresponsible Vision team gorging themselves on dim sum, our on dime”.

It has been swell bantering with all you NPAers but I realize that even though I’m not a card caring Vision guy, they just seem to be much more fun, interesting, positive and progressive in their outlook, Life is way to short to wallow in such negative backwash … take care, think good thoughts, and see you at the polls next November.

Well well well, AGT hits the ball out of the park on his latest post..
Can't deny what is in black and white!!
Great job Alex, see the evidence for yourself folks.
Shame on Vision...

@ disappointment or, whoever you are, thank you for focusing on "what you guys should be discussing and debating in depth, the Stir programme and Spot Re-zonings, etc…". I agree & if you're interested you can probably find in my various comments on Bula, CC & AGT over the past few months where I do indeed focus primarily on the issues. I am also not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Mark my words, the STIR programme is a disaster in the making. It will haunt the next few Council terms. It does not produce 'affordable' housing {+50% over market rents], is a huge gift to the developers [profits of 85% to 120% when the going rate is 15% to 20%] & these units are being subsidized by City taxpayers - in @ least one case @ more than $150,000 per 390 sf unit, including renters - it's included in their rent - & you, unless you live under as bridge [as in troll - my attempt @ humour but, I'm warning you].

As for your version of F#*%ing NPA hacks, I am not sure of the association of the various regular commenters but, your suggestion that NPAers are not "fun, interesting, positive and progressive in their outlook is off-base. I happen to be a card carrying member of the NPA & I & my associates are very much "fun, interesting, positive and progressive". Amongst other things, we along with TEAM are 98% responsible for creating Vancouver, one of the most livable cities in the world. The frustration you are hearing is, in part, watching VV destroy the enlightened policies [including an amazing Citywide biking network], fiscally responsible priorities [a triple A credit rating], world respected planning & development process, a highly skilled non-partisan civil service & even down to the infrastructure [Bloedel, Children's Farmyard, etc.].

If you think VV are doing the 'right stuff', we live on different planets.

Bill... I respect the work and significant contribution you have made over the many years to make this city what it is today, particularly your influence in the 70's ... I certainly do not lump you in with Klassen or AGT or the bulk of the contributors that I have read on this blog over the past few days (new to this site)... your passion and sincerity is real, your cause is from the heart and obvious love for the city ... but more importantly you have real knowledge, insight, and imagination based on your past work.

If the NPA is to be successful again they need more of you, hell Vision could use more of you.

I was being a bit flippant about the fun loving aspects, no harm no foul .... :-)

Best of luck...

Daniel is just being pi**y if he's not happy with third place :-)Jeff Lee has a legitimate gripe. He should have been much higher on this list. To "disappointed"-keep your ear to the ground buddy. Everywhere I go(and I cover a lot of ground)I hear people calling Robertson the worst Mayor ever. Ever. People who have never voted municipally before will be streaming to the polls next November to vote against him. Count on it. This administration is behaving very badly, and will soon pay the price.

@disappointment:

"All I can respond to is it appears by your comments as if you have never really been involved in building a business, particularly a national one or one with a global reach…"

I wrote a total of 3 sentences down below and from that you're able to decipher that I'm an NPAer, I've never built up business multi-nationally, there won't be immediate results from the trade mission, and I maintain a blog?

It's a weak position, and really low rent, when you can't address the argument, opting instead to feebly slander myself and others.

Since you decided to shift the focus to me instead of addressing my comment, here's some charity in return:

I know two of the business heads going on this trade mission. I was pleasantly surprised to see their names on Gregor's press release Thursday about the trip. They are leaders in their field in the Vancouver market, and vendors whom I sometimes call on to submit bids for budgets I'm working on.

It's a natural fit that my cohorts partner up with Chinese companies as they need the Chinese labour to crank out volume work at $0.25 on the dollar of the labour cost in BC since budgets have shrunk dramatically, which even with a labour tax credit provided by the province can't afford to have the volume work done with local labour.

Nothing's changed since 8 years ago (except now the volume's about to go up again, but at the same fee): we get cheaper labour, they get our money (and on some domestic projects, these are federal tax dollars).

The Chinese also benefit from the expertise and talent of local key department heads. In fact, if my cohorts don't partner up with the Chinese, they will find themselves in competition with Chinese companies that are already here and setting up their own front end with hired locals.

Gregor is doing exactly the right thing by going on this trip as it's a safe bet that it will score great optics vis a vis immediate contracts, and what I hear from my Chinese sources, the trip is happening at a perfect time in the right cities. Gregor is betting black and red at the same time, which is difficult to lose on unless the unlikely '0' or '00' come up.

Dig old-timer?

"Do you have anything in there of any depth that might actually contribute to the broader dialogue of society building, how WE can move forward rather than always taking the easy path of ripping others down... at least a balanced approached would be refreshing every once in while."

Blah blah blah, I have no spine, blah blah blah, my head is full of mush, blah blah blah, be positive, blah blah blah, dont knock eachother down, blah blah blah, doubleplusgood bellyfeels for all!

Sorry Dennis... I was responding to too much at once ... my comment was not directed to you but rf, my mistake.

And I "dig" what you had to say, spot on... you obviously understand a great deal, thanks for responding.

But to your earlier comment, I certainly don't give Vision credit for the Vancouver in which I live today, this fantastic city has been the work of many many great people over a very long time, from all walks of life and political bents ... Vision is only starting and will hopefully make many positive contributions that will continue to shape vancouver in the years to come - it all takes time... I believe that they will, others don't... so be it.


Martin: ha, thanks for the additional confirmation!

I would say have great day, but that might be too upbeat ... but oh gosh darn it anyways - have great day anyways :-)

Thank you disappointed. You're right, I do care about this City & know there are many others, including you & other commenters on these blogs, who do also. I am confident as we approach the election next year good people who do want to make a difference will come forward to participate in the democratic process @ whatever level they are comfortable.

@mike: "Some media have been flagged already in Vancouver as being "Vision-friendly". There are entire news broadcasts today in our city that would never think of producing one pixel of bad coverage for Gregor Robertson. There are other broadcasters, journalists and commentators who are far more coy about their support for Vision."

Sounds like somebody is drawing up a journalist hit list of his own! This must be the biggest backwater of hack journalism in North America, if all reporters are nothing more than thinly veiled partisans for one side or another...I'd like to think there's a few good ones out there still.


@suzie “Sounds like somebody is drawing up a journalist hit list of his own!”

It does seem that way doesn’t it! What would you call it though? since Mike and Alex have used up all the really good names like “Enemies list” or “Hit List” … hmmm how about the “Lovefest list” to squishy? no, just doesn’t have the same impact with venom and spit that the Hit List does. But you are right about the thinly veiled partisans – check out this link to an article talking to an aspect of this very issue that I came across yesterday …

http://www.vancouverobserver.com/blogs/politicaljunkie/2010/08/31/citycaucus-paranoid-van-suns-jeff-lee-playing-tweedledum-mike

Also in all fairness, there are some really good professional journalists reporting in Vancouver (and I don’t mean hobby bloggers posing as journalists), those that are doing objective and factual writing – both in print and online -- the Tyee and VO are both good examples of some decent local online work.

I know a lot of the readers on this site might take exception, such that the Tyee or VO are biased, but I don’t see it in the actual writing, they are left leaning absolutely, but do not intentionally distort in an attempt to drive a personal agenda, like some blogs (or Fox news, ha). The Tyee and VO both report facts, not simply rumors, and they are both run by journalists (e.g. the VO publisher is a Pulitzer prize nominated one). Just read the breath and range of the work they both produce… sure a blog and news site are different models, as blogs are usually only a platform for a single agenda or theme (in a lawless wild west style anyone can play) and the VO, Tyee, VanSun, G&M, etc provide a wide range of quality coverage on many topics, held up to a higher standard (or try to!). They are attempting to provide a professional level of journalism and an aggregation of a variety of perspectives (now including blogs, like Frances Bula on the G&M) … much different focus, you just need to know where to go and what to expect, and know which way they lean, as they all lean in some direction, some way more than others.

@ disappointed

My nerves are made of steel. Can't touch that. Now go make a fur ball.

@ Dennis O'Bell

Gregor goes to China for the good of Vancouver(inaudible laughing). You don't say so. Why? Bigger profits for local Barons, most likely Vision campaign contributors; a Vancouver Jobs outsourcing classic move; Chinese cheap labor (more like sweatshop quality) under a draconian Communist regime, but apparently highly sought as a 'poster model of the times to come' after, by these Gang in the Hall.
Making Vancouver Green? (inaudible laughing) Of course, when all the stuff we buy is produced overseas, you bet. Now, it's your fur ball time.

Emily.

The Tyee (which I happen to like) and VO NOT biased??

Wow, that home-grown is some powerful stuff.

VO---irrelevent piffle sheet filled with feel-good aphorisms. Please tell me what breaking news that Linda Soloman has come up with?

I guess you know that the Mayor's major backer is the brother to the proprietor? No? Maybe that would explain the leaness of coverage on all but the VV agenda.

Shame on you for making such a dumb statement.

Agreed Higgins, except that I wouldn't call the two business heads I know on the trip barons. A search on the Vancouver Sun's donor database doesn't bring up their names.

And just to add, at their level they don't need the mayor for anything on this trip, it's the mayor that needs them for appearances.

dissappointed said: "those that are doing objective and factual writing – both in print and online -- the Tyee and VO are both good examples of some decent local online work."
______________________________________

You've gotta be joking? Right? LOL

Vancouver Observer:

1.Run by Linda Solomon, sister of VV and Mayor Moonbeam financial backer Joel Solomon;

2. Writers include Ian Reid, self-described New Democrat activist;

The Tyee:

1. Writers have included a prolific poster on this site - Chris Keam;

2. Blogger Bill Tieleman, VV and New Democrat supporter, who then later puts the same stuff on his own blog;

3. Alot of short, poorly written, factually incorrect and left-wing ideological articles that wouldn't pass the smell test in the main stream press.

4. Most posters thereon preach left-wing socialism; the NDP is too "liberal".

Yo dissappointed, I'm certainly 'dissappointed' that you could post such silly drivel here. You've lost any credibility that you ever had. Too funny. :D

@Todd
Ha... yes, very funny indeed!!

As I said in my reply to Suzie they are absolutely left leaning, without a doubt, but at least factual and leaves room for open discourse, they do not use this insane Glen Beck style of hyperbole passing it off as fact ... if you do a 180 and take a critical look back at the tone and tenor of this blog over time (and heaven forbid uncle alex's - painful) boy or boy, you can then talk about angry drivel. I can only ascertain that this approach to writing is intended to agitate the followers into a frenzy, in order to run the evil doers out of town - as Bush once said, if you aren't with us you are against us, not a great approach in life, kind of sad actually ... hmmm

Also, come on now, everyone in business or governance has connections and associations including Mike and his pal Sam, go figure... its how the world spins... its what you do with those connections that really count in the end... Mike and Alex chooses their style for effect with a personal purpose, so if it speaks to you then great, go with it.

There are some smart and excellent contributors here, such as Bill and Chris ... that was never in question, but if you really want to take a shot a drivel please go back and read some of the posts on this site, really .... Mike smeared like Obama, Gregor as Nixon, etc, etc, etc, etc... and then read the quality of writing on the Tyee for example... no comparison, like comparing 24hours to the NYT.

And angry tax payer... who is Emily?
also I haven't smoke pot in 30 years but some of the blog posts on this site may drive me drink :-)

The Thought of The Day

"When the food has no taste. When the drinks are warm. When you are not allowed to have a smoke with your stale coffee...maybe it's time to look for a new Joint."

So why don't you, 'dissapointed'?

There are plenty of titty bars open out there in this city, where one could enjoy reading print-outs from VO and TYEE stapled to the wall, while taking a leek.
I heard in some instances they cured urinary incontinence in only two paragraphs.

The Gregor has no clothes, he walks around butt naked 'disappointed', City Hall is his Castle, Ballem's Court are his advisors, Linda, Joel & VO are the Tailors from Hollyhock.

I am pointing them out to you. You can join the 'smart' ones that can 'see' the clothes, or join the 'stupid' ones that cannot. The choice is yours, like everything else in life.

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

Gliss: Exit stage left... perfect timing, thx for reading.

There are some fine intelligent contributors on this site, you know who you are, but Gliss you sure "ain't" one of them, I hope some of the others continue to contribute to all the progressive sites out there and not get sucked into the black gooey angst of this or AGT's horrible horrible blog .... life is far too beautiful than to waste it here.

I've had my fill at this trough, time to move on to "greener" pastures with "open" views.

and by the way, this is my Vancouver as well, you certainly don't hold the keys, thank god.

Gliss...
sadly, disappointed doesn't understand the "art" of Satire.
I find your art form brilliant, please, keep it coming. I always look forward to your posts;)
I thought Vision supported the Arts, but it appears, only when it supports the Vision mantra.

@ disappointed, I think that black gooey stuff you refer to is the truth... yes, I agree, the truth coming out right now is very black, gooey and down right evil, but it is the truth like it or not...
not everything in life is "sunshine and lollipops"

Wow this really is too easy, why do you even respond … “your art form brilliant”! :-)))
What do you usually read, People magazine or Guns and Ammo?

Remember being nasty and direct, without humour, is just that, nasty and direct.

You may want to look up what garden variety satire is (then look up brilliant satire), or even better maybe if Gliss is actually trying to write satire he should take this course to help him get started. http://www.sfu.ca/seniors/scfc558.htm . But I suspect he wouldn’t have time, living in Vancouver keeps him too busy.

As I said many times on this blog there are those here who really have something of interest and depth to discuss without immediately spirally down into the kind of dialogue Gliss put up in his last comment (I’m sorry I am even partaking).

And really now “down right evil”, damn you truly do scare me, really.

btw Gliss... I think you may have gotten your King has no clothes analogy a bit mixed up, although I guess brillance is a low bar for George. I will try to correct it for you... I'm a nice guy.

You can join the 'smart' ones that can see he has no clothes, or join the 'stupid' ones that cannot. :-)

Be positive, move on, you're so angry. The mantra of assumed moral superiority by which inconvenient facts can be brushed aside without the trouble of rational justification. Add the smokescreen of a tumbled mass of more or less irrelevant assertions to obscure the issue and it all seems so reasonable.

But it isn't. We need to get angry, to refuse to put things behind us, to hold people to account. I get angry about sincere individuals struggling to do good against the odds while public agencies waste resources they can't even dream of. I get angry about Harper sending our children to die in a pointless war. I get angry about plenty of other things in between, arrogant spoilt brat politicians and their accolytes imposing their financier's agenda on our city being a particularly satisfying target!

Our rulers need to be made accountable. The best method of achieving this positive aim is holding their feet to the fire, a bit negative but extremely effective.

"Sunshine and lollipops" might indicate your age group, buddy.
You intrigued me with your comment so I checked.
This is what YOU wrote:
"You can join the 'smart' ones that can see he has no clothes, or join the 'stupid' ones that cannot. :-)"
This is what GR wrote:
"You can join the 'smart' ones that can 'see' the clothes, or join the 'stupid' ones that cannot."
IMO by 'smart' he meant 'You know it all Vision guys' by 'see' he meant 'You Vision guys which in truth are totally blind' or join the 'stupid' - 'all the rest of us living in Vancouver whose opinion differ from the one Vision has' and here is where I think he meant to put his 'cannot' instead of - cannot, as in 'yea right'
Smarty pants and lollipops. You might want to read a book. And your message...typical Vision.

Speaking about "hobby bloggers" ,disappointed, I assume you are including VO editrix-in-chief Linda Solomon (Joe's sister) and a huge supporter of VV, in that mix as well?

The worst "reporter" at the Olympics, she proved herself the doyenne of the "feel good" aphorisms, with no apparent connection to a question that anyone would give a damn about.

Her long-winded, goofy, meandering "questions to nowhere" tortured athletes from over 60 countries! Everyone in the media theatre rolled their eyes when she came up to the mic. But, I digress...

If that link was any indication, I would also put Ian Reid under that less-than august heading. To take a cheap shot like that at the Sun's Jeff Lee, is as disgraceful as it gets. But our Mike, he's a big boy and will just roll with the punches ;-)

Could we stop slagging each other and get back to discussing the issues?

@angry taxpayer

boy oh boy, the lady doth protest too much about the VO, a theme is emerging …. Do you have an(other) axe to grind, some bad blood brewing over somebody who as you say deals in only “feel good”. If that’s what you truly believe, do you also kick puppies around for sport, too? I sense a wee bit of envy maybe, hmmm. How many Pulitzer prize nominations for investigative journalism have you garnered or for that matter any of your journalist friends … not many I suspect, so lighten up and deal with the issues of the NPA, not personal attacks that only make you look small, bitter and petty.

@justme “Could we stop slagging each other and get back to discussing the issues?”

At last a voice of reason from the wilderness, please let that be the mantra for this site… thank you Justme. I will tow that line and contribute only on the issues from now on.

No axe to grind.

But calling a spade a shovel. VO as a bastian of unbiased---or even semi-biased---journalistic credibility? Ummm, not so much. Hmmm, methinks I have hit a bit of a nerve.

You, of course, default to the puppy-kicking and envy shtick. That is the best you do!? Very simplistic. Who's calling whom names, my dear? My dogs adore me, btw ;-)

With inciteful analysis like this, you might have a future as an associate editor at VO.

As to the NPA, as I am not (yet) a member, I must default to their board and membership to make the choices they will need to make in order to be viable contenders in the next election. I am however, happy to exercise my opinion on this here little ol' blog.

However, I am SURE that your opinion counts for so much more (a sort of sickness or delusion from people from your side, yes?), as evidenced by your attitude here. So fire away!

@ angrytaxpayer

fyi … I actually don’t have an official “side” politically speaking, I seek out open discourse and look for all sides of an “issue” (hence poking around this site, the tyee, etc) … but I abhor intolerance in all its forms, regardless where it comes from, so if that is a side then yes I guess I have a side.

You can never reason with an angry person … so be angry and demeaning to all those that aren’t part of your tribe, that’s your choice, fair enough … I just don’t believe it is very interesting way to approach ones life, but then some seem to be born angry, always looking for a fight or something to “kick”.

I look forward to reading your “opinion” on issues … but I’m not here for the blood sport as you seem to be, so find somebody else to direct your anger towards, please… you win.

Have a great day :-)

No no no, you don't get it sunshine. You have to be on a 'side'. As I've learned on this blog, you either attack the mayor and vision at every turn, or you are a condescending, visionista, hollyhock, mayor moonbeam defender. There is no middle ground.

say it ain't so joe .... although an interesting perspective, who would have thunk it possible? even the website states....
"Our goal here is to have a fun, but respectful dialogue about Canada's major urban centres, and we hope you will participate in "the conversation" by providing comments that stick to the issues, and do not stoop to name-calling or personal attacks."

You burst my bubble, damn you ... guess I better head over to a real progressive blog, AGT.com ... lots of middle ground there, a more tolerant tribe willing to listen to other perspectives, civil ... yup thats the ticket.


Elke International, interesting that you would use a bike related company as your anonymous poster name.

Sorry Elka,
I Googled your name with an e instead of a. My mistake :)

I don't have a tribe, Sunshine. And depite by nom de plume, I am rather happy. Another instance of satire lost...damn!

What I believe: I surely don't like hypocracy, regardless of "side". Ideaology is one thing. Pretending to be above the fray, fair-minded and then exhibiting actions that are counter to that stated ideology are to be called out---regardless of political stripe.

Open discourse, I think you can agree, sometimes means "callin' them the ways ya sees 'em". Any philosopher can tell you at some point, judgements need to be made. While there are often shades of gray, there are also times when things are clearly black and white.

Thanks for the magnanimous gesture. I accept your white flag. :-)

A la prochaine...

The Thought of The Evening

"Elka Sunshine & International Lollipops, I pardon you."

My mom, always told me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RI4SzEb5tog

We live in Vancouver and this keeps us busy.

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